Reconstruction after deconstruction--after leaving religion behind. This show also educates the listeners of the dangers posed by dominion theology and the Christian Right today.
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Sunday School Dropouts is a podcast hosted by trained therapists Dr. Laura Anderson and Andrew Kerbs. Both Andrew and Laura grew up in high control religion and spent years trying to live up to the rules and standards until one day, they couldn’t do it anymore. They spent our lives aspiring to be true followers of God and all they got from it was religious trauma. So now, they’re taking our lived experiences along with their education, training, and work with clients to create this podcast–a ...
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A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy (with Tia Levings)
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A few months ago I caught up with author Tia Levings to discuss her new book, A Well-Trained Wife: My Escape from Christian Patriarchy. Tia is perhaps best known for her viral TikTok video, "Fundy Baby Voice"--and she knows what she's talking about. A product of the Bill Gothard "cult without walls," Tia was raised in the "modesty culture" and taug…
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Hurt and Healed by the Church: Redemption and Reconstruction After Spiritual Abuse (with Ryan George)
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Months ago I had a great conversation with author and adrenaline junkie, Ryan George. Following on in the trend of interviewing more progressive Christians--after chatting with Keith Giles recently--this seemed like a great time to drop this episode. Although he's been able to reclaim a version of Christianity for himself, Ryan and I found that we …
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The Abuser’s Playbook (aka the Story of Job)
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We’re excited to bring you another episode of Vacation Bible School–Sunday School Dropouts edition! This month we are joined by our favorite podcast editor, Kevin Crowe (@jesusunfollower on social media) to talk about the story of Job. And let us tell ya, this is *not* the story you heard in VBS! We’ll also be talking about some of the latest thing…
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Leaning Into the Deconstruction Thing (with Keith Giles)
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This week's conversation features author, podcaster, and "freelance theologian" Keith Giles, who--although definitely no evangelical Christian--has moved past even being a progressive Christian. What does that make him? I don't know exactly, but it does make for a fascinating conversation with someone who has deconstructed his former fundamentalist…
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Vacation Bible School featuring the Apostle Paul, the OG Grifter
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It’s summer and that means it’s time for Vacation Bible School–Sunday School Dropouts Edition! This month we’re letting you in on all the church-sanctified gossip that all the moms are talking about as their kiddos are doing arts and crafts like Carl Lenz’s new podcast, Robert Morris’ “affair, and more. And during our Bible story time we’ll be talk…
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Surviving Roy Masters' "Foundation of Human Understanding" Cult (with Marissa Hackett)
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This week's episode features a fascinating conversation with Marissa Hackett, who grew up in a right-wing cult started by controversial radio host, Roy Masters. Originally starting out in the early 1960s, Masters spread his message nationwide through his radio show, tapes, and book sales. Based originally out of Los Angeles, Masters bought a ranch …
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The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church (with Sarah McCammon)
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In this conversation with journalist and author Sarah McCammon, we discuss her book that just came out in March, called The Exvangelicals: Loving, Living, and Leaving the White Evangelical Church. Not only does Sarah do a masterful job of explaining why so many "exvangelicals" have left the white evangelical church behind, she shares her own story …
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Bonus Episode! We Have Ruined God: My Journey Out of Religion and Into Unconditional Love (with Dr Sheri Pallas)
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In this special bonus episode, I caught up with returning guest, Dr Sheri Pallas, as we discussed her brand-new book that just dropped on the 2nd of May, 2024. It's titled We Have Ruined God: My Journey Out of Religion and Into Unconditional Love, and from the conversation we had, it sounds like a fascinating and intriguing book. Why should people …
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Wrapping Up Season One!
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This is our final episode of season one and Andrew and Laura are back to talk about men and bears, lift up John MacArthur in prayer, to quite literally celebrate the United Methodist church’s repeal of their declaration that did not allow LGBTQ+ clergy members and more. We’ll also be reflecting on some of our favorite moments from the season and sh…
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Dismantling Doctrine Part 1 with Anna and Kari Jo of the Heretical Hippies Podcast!
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I truly hope that you enjoy this great collaborative episode I recently did with Anna and Kari Jo, hosts of the fantastic Heretical Hippies podcast! We covered a lot of ground about their backstory, deconstruction of their former faith, and what they are doing--and believing--currently. I believe this will be a helpful discussion for all those who …
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Unmasking Project 2025: A Threat to American Democracy (with Jenny Cohn)
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Once again I'm joined by investigative journalist Jenny Cohn, who does a lot of writing for the Bucks County Beacon. Jenny has been on the show before and in this instance, I reached out to her because she's done a lot of work exposing and unmasking the agenda behind Project 2025. What if Donald Trump were to win the presidential election in Novemb…
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Deconstruction: Unpacking Your Inherited Beliefs (with Jonathan Davis)
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This week's episode features a wide-ranging discussing with Jonathan Davis, an ex-evangelical former pastor and seminary professor who deconstructed his former faith, questioned everything, and is on the journey. Ironically, it was closely studying his Bible that started Jonathan on this path of unpacking all his inherited beliefs and discovering h…
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Purity Culture Poster Child to Pastor to Black Sheep w/ Josh Harris
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This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you …
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Patreon-Only Exclusive! Exposing Project 2025: A Threat to American Democracy
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Welcome to a riveting Patreon-only episode of the MindShift Podcast, where we delve into the obscure but influential Project 2025. Explored through extensive research and interviews with high-profile figures such as Jenny Cohn and Andra Watkins, this episode unveils startling details about the project believed to have major implications for the fut…
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Trump's MAGA Army: Playing the Endgame (with Frank Schaeffer)
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Recently I reached out to my good friend--and returning guest--Frank Schaeffer, who has a very unique perspective on what's happening in the Trump/Christian Right world. As a former player himself in the late 1970s and early 80s, along with his famous father Francis, they helped to kickstart the evangelical anti-abortion movement. They were also in…
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How to Heal when You’re the Victim and Perpetrator
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How do you heal from religious trauma when you were both the victim and perpetrator of high control religion? Dan Miller joins us today to discuss his work with clients who are healing from religious trauma and adverse religious experiences that were in positions of ministry leadership, including the unpaid labor of volunteers (which many of us cal…
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Finding Your Authentic Self After Leaving Religion (with Wren Story)
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I finally caught up with author and ex-evangelical Wren Story a few weeks ago. I have long followed her on Facebook and always resonated with much of what she writes about, since we have a lot in common! In this episode, Wren and I discuss not only her backstory growing up in an evangelical church setting, we'll also get into how she ended up getti…
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Choosing Relationship over Doctrine
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We are excited to be talking today with April Ajoy and Beecher Reuning! They are sharing with the Sunday School Dropouts crew their story of growing up in fundamentalism and purity culture, meeting and getting married under those systems and then navigating their way through discarding those doctrines and theology to find their way into the relatio…
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Patreon Only Exclusive! "Shiny Happy People": The Toxic Teachings of Evangelical Purity Culture
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If you have seen the Amazon Prime documentary "Shiny Happy People," then you'll benefit from this Patreon-only exclusive episode. I do a deep dive into the background of this toxic and damaging teaching, as well as exploring the Bill Gothard Institutes in Basic Life Principles connection to it all. If like me, you were raised in this movement, then…
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…when you don’t get what you’re promised from purity culture…
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Today we are excited to have the Sexvangelicals, that is Julia Postema and Jeremiah Gibson, on our podcast! Julia and Jeremiah are licensed and AASECT certified psychotherapists who use their personal and professional lives and experience to work with relationships where at least one partner has been a part of high control religion, fundamentalism …
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Discussing "God and Country" (with Katherine Stewart)
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Recently I reached out to returning guest Katherine Stewart, author of The Power Worshipers and The Good News Club, for a chat about the new Rob Reiner film, "God and Country." In the movie, Reiner takes a good hard look at Christian nationalism, and how elements of the more extreme side of the movement have affected not just America, but indeed th…
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Growing Up as a Woman in Purity Culture
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We are thrilled today to be talking with Rachel Overvoll! Rachel herself grew up in purity culture and high control religion. We discuss her experiences inside purity culture, the impact of it and her healing journey. We then get into how Rachel has used her personal story to inspire her professional life as a Somatic Sex Coach who works with clien…
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Taking Dominion: From the NAR to Mike Johnson (with Matthew D Taylor)
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I recently caught up with Dr Matthew Taylor, senior scholar at the Islamic, Christian, and Jewish Studies (ICJS) in Baltimore. When it comes to the roots of the NAR--the New Apostolic Reformation--7 mountains mandate dominion theology, and more, Taylor is an absolute fount of information on these subjects, as you'll discover in this episode. Moreov…
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The Impact of Purity Culture on Women
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We are thrilled to have with us today Dr. Tina Schermer Seller who is an author, researcher, professor, and psychotherapist specializing in the impacts of purity culture, shame resilience, gender, and sexuality. In this episode, Dr. Tina shares her research and how she came to realize the psychological and physiological impact of purity culture and…
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Giving Up God: Resurrecting a Spirituality of Love and Wonder (with Sarah Hayward)
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This week's episode features a conversation with author Sarah Hayward (no relation to David Hayward, "the Naked Pastor!") Sarah's book Giving Up God is all about walking away from organized religion, in this case Christianity, and yet trying to discover a sense of authentic spirituality. For those of us who left a controlling religion behind, the i…
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Crossover Episode Part 2: An Interview with Rachel Bernstein of the IndoctriNation Podcast
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This episode marks now the second time I've done a crossover episode with Rachel Bernstein, host of the fantastic IndoctriNation podcast. As a therapist, cult expert, and specialist in dealing with folks who suffer from religious trauma syndrome, Rachel is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to dealing with a wide variety of issues caused by cults,…
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Growing Up Male in Purity Culture
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We’re back with another episode from our purity culture mini-series! This week’s guest is RC Curtwright (@deconstructing_exjw on Instagram) who grew up in the Jehovah’s Witness organization and was a poster child of purity culture. In our conversation RC shares some of the long term impacts, mental health issues and shame that he and many other men…
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The Christian Right: Taking Dominion in 2024? (with Peter Montgomery)
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MindShift Podcast is officially back for 2024! And what better way to kick off another season of the show than to catch up with an old friend, Peter Montgomery of the Right Wing Watch? In this first episode, Peter and I conduct a wide-ranging, thorough overview of the end of 2023 and look forward into this year, discussing the agenda of the Christi…
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It’s Time to Talk about Men Healing from Purity Culture
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The holidays are over and we are back into our purity culture mini-series! This month we are talking about purity culture and it’s impact on individuals who grew up male in this system. We are thrilled to have Dr. Bradley Onishi on the podcast today as our professional who has done research and client-facing work in this area as well as being a pur…
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Terrified of Picking the Wrong God (with Joshua Stewart)
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As a recent guest on Joshua's excellent podcast, "The Mediocre Observer," I was happy to return the favor and have Joshua on the show. I hope you enjoy this, the final episode of MindShift Podcast for 2023! In this wide-ranging discussion, Joshua and I discuss, among other things, why he was terrified to pick the wrong God in his quest for spiritua…
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Holiday Q&A Part Two with Cindy Wang Brandt
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You better watch out…you better not cry… Celebrating the holidays can be difficult when you’re deconstructing from your faith or healing from religious trauma. That’s why we’re using today’s episode to take your questions about various aspects of religious trauma and the holidays! Today Laura is joined by guest-host, Cindy Wang Brandt, to answer th…
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Inside a Somatic Experiencing Session
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We have a special episode for you today! Throughout our podcast episodes we’ve talked about various forms of trauma resolution but today we want to let you peek into what a trauma resolution session actually is! Laura is joined with her friends and colleagues, Jeremy Lehmann (who’s been on our podcast before!) and Jessica Hyne. The three of them ha…
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Wearing a Stained-Glass Mask: Deconstruction, Explained (with David Hayward)
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I've finally managed to catch up with one of my favorite Canadians, David Hayward "The Naked Pastor." As an ex-pastor and ex-evangelical like me, author and cartoonist David is best known for his irreverent but incredibly poignant cartoons depicting a huge array of theological and churchly issues. They cause people to think, to question, to ponder …
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Holiday Q&A Part One with Matthias Roberts
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It’s the most wonderful time of the year…or is it? Celebrating the holidays can be difficult when you’re deconstructing from your faith or healing from religious trauma. That’s why we’re using today’s episode to take your questions about various aspects of religious trauma and the holidays! Today Laura is joined by guest-host, Matthias Roberts, to …
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Let’s Talk About Sex, Baby!
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Let’s talk about sex, baby! Today sex educator and creator of the Purity Culture Dropout brand and services, Erica Smith, joins us to talk about sex, comprehensive sex education and resources if you’re needing some remedial sex education after abstinence only or purity culture “sex education”. We’ll also be sharing some prayer requests, answering l…
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Getting Jefferson Right: Debunking the Historical Revisionism of Christian Nationalism (with Dr Warren Throckmorton)
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This week's episode features a great conversation with a returning guest, historian Dr Warren Throckmorton. From our previous conversation a few years ago, he's had a longstanding issue with the Christian nationalist "historian" David Barton of WallBuilders. Back in 2012, Barton's book The Jefferson Lies was pulled from the bookshelves by its Chris…
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It’s time to talk about purity culture! Join Andrew and Laura as they begin a mini-series on all things purity culture. In today’s episode we discuss the history of purity culture, our own experiences in it, the long term impacts it’s had on their clients and some of the ways they work with clients when it comes to recovering from purity culture. T…
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Holy Heathen: Blowing It Up and Starting All Over (with Katherine North)
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Katherine North is an amazing woman--she grew up as a missionary kid in Japan, but all her life as a young girl she struggled with a major problem: she couldn't bring herself to believe the message of the Christian gospel. What did she do about it? As the title of the episode suggests, she deconstructed in a major way...and since then, has spent de…
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4 Disturbing Questions with One Simple Answer: Breaking the Spell of Christian Belief (with Tim Sledge)
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Once again, I'm joined by my good friend Tim Sledge, who like me is an ex-pastor who has since walked away from both the church and the Christian faith. This week we're discussing his excellent book, Four Disturbing Questions with One Simple Answer, which has a lot of resonance with me as an ex-Christian. Tim poses four questions that anyone who is…
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Becoming a Better Body Together
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We are thrilled this week to be talking to Dr. Roberto Che Espinoza about their work in embodiment! Dr. Roberto is passionate about the politics of radical difference and the ways that our collective differences might shed light on how we become a better body together. This ‘better body together’ concept is something our conversation focuses on, as…
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Confessions of a Former Christian Publisher (with David Morris)
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Thanks to my good friend Janice Selbie, she introduced me to David Morris, who used to be an employee of some of the biggest Christian publishing houses. David has since walked away from the faith and his career--at least as a Christian publisher, that is. He's now publishing books largely written by, and for, ex-evangelicals, in some way to make u…
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Your Body is a Revolution
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Today’s guest is Tara Teng. Tara is an Embodiment Coach who works in the intersections of spirituality and sexuality. She helps people find their way back to their bodies, overcome shame, heal trauma and dismantle purity culture in a way that is in alignment with their values and beliefs so that they can build a healthy, sexual ethic and thrive in …
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Crossover Episode Part 2: Cheers to Leaving and MindShift Podcast (with Rachael and Molly)
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This show is Part 2 of a crossover episode that I've absolutely enjoyed recording. It features the second half of my conversation with Rachael and Molly, the co-hosts of the Cheers to Leaving podcast. Before listening to this conversation, head over to their platform to catch Part 1! In this chat, we discuss what it was like to grow up in a fundame…
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Transitioning out of Purity Culture
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On today’s episode of Sunday School Dropouts we will be talking to Cody Harman, a certified fitness coach and nutritionist! Cody shares his story of growing up within evangelicalism and purity culture being socialized female, coming out and transitioning. Cody’s lets us in on his process of healing from the shame and harm that was caused by high co…
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January 6th, 2020 as an Apocalypse: Evangelicals and Conspiracy Theories (with Jared Stacy)
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Is it really true that evangelicals are known as "the people without questions"? That theology can quickly turn into ideology? And why are so many evangelicals willing to believe in increasingly outlandish, unproven conspiracy theories? My guest this week, Jared Stacy, is a transplanted American currently living with his family up in Aberdeen, Scot…
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Religious Trauma for Queer Folks
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Today we are excited to be joined by Jeremy Lehmann–Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, Trauma Coach and Assistant Director for the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Jeremy joins us today to talk about some of the aspects of working with queer folks coming out of high control religion, fundamentalism,…
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Jesus Christ: Good Teacher, Bad Teacher, or Cult Leader? (with David Johnson and Gary Hudson)
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This week's episode features not just one returning guest, but two! I brought back David Johson, host of the Skeptics and Seekers podcast, and Gary Hudson, author of Surrender to Reason, to discuss a few burning topics. One of my listeners asked me a question a few months ago: "Why does Jesus always seem to get a free pass when Christians are decon…
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Trauma Bonding, Bypassing, Narcissism, and Gaslighting–what do they actually mean?
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It’s time to go to school! Pull out your paper and pencil because today we’re going to have a vocabulary lesson! Join Laura and Andrew on today’s episode where they discuss some of the most commonly misunderstood and mis-defined words that people throw around conversationally and in social media spaces! Trauma bonding is when you bond over shared t…
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Surviving Sexual Abuse in Doug Wilson's Logos School (with Emilie Paige)
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This week's show comes with an obvious trigger warning related to an account of grooming and sexual abuse of a minor. Emilie Paige tells her horrific story of how she was groomed and finally abused by one of the teachers in Doug Wilson's Logos School out of Moscow, ID. Sadly, we've seen too many examples of what can happen within these deeply patri…
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Therapy vs. Coaching vs. Psychiatry
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Nowadays there are more resources available than ever before if you’re looking for support on your healing journey–but which type of person is the best fit for you? A therapist? Coach? Psychiatrist? Join Andrew and Laura to discuss the differences and similarities between these professionals, why they practice as coaches (even though they have acad…
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