Erika Hall and Mike Monteiro - Consulting with Backbone: Authenticity, Humanity, and the Value of Hard Truths

The UX Consultants Lounge

In this episode of The UX Consultants Lounge, host Kyle Soucy sits down with two legendary figures in the UX and design consulting world: Erika Hall and Mike Monteiro, co-founders of Mule Design. Known for their honesty, wit, and willingness to challenge the status quo, Erika and Mike bring decades of experience—and a few well-placed truth bombs—to this candid conversation about UX consulting.

Key Topics Covered:

• The Origin of Mule Design: Why they chose the name Mule and how it represents their approach to consulting—doing the work with intelligence, honesty, and integrity.
• Lessons from the Trenches: The challenges of running a consultancy, firing clients, dealing with contracts, and why you always need a good lawyer.
• The Current UX Climate: Why UX professionals are not to blame for recent industry turbulence, and the role speculative tech growth has played in overhiring and layoffs.
• Being “The Helpers”: Mike and Erika’s advice on contributing to meaningful work—whether in civic tech, local organizations, or community projects—and embracing the value of problem-solving skills.
• Marketing and Business Development: The importance of putting yourself out there authentically. Erika shares how being consistent and unapologetic about your expertise helps clients find you, while Mike encourages consultants to embrace honesty and avoid sounding like machines.
• Why Authenticity Matters: A bold call to action for UX consultants to stop trying to fit in, stop being bland, and start telling hard truths—because that’s what clients actually need.

When asked to describe UX consulting in one word, Erika says, “Lost”, and Mike delivers a punch: “Dead.” Listen to the episode to hear their powerful explanations and why the future of consulting requires honesty, backbone, and humanity.

Connect with Us:

• Host: Kyle Soucy: Website | Linkedin
• Guest: Erika Hall: Website | Linkedin
• Guest: Mike Monteiro: Website | Linkedin

- - - - -

Links and Resources Mentioned:

• Books by Erica and Mike: https://www.mulebooks.com/
• Erika’s business model talk: The Business Model is the Grid (Confab)https://conffab.com/presentation/the-business-model-is-the-grid/
• Mike’s infamous talk: “F** You, Pay Me”* (Creative Mornings) -https://youtu.be/jVkLVRt6c1U?si=YfFLEeoUe2EkpWmo

Submit a question or story: Have a question or topic that you'd like us to cover in a future episode and/or want to share an anonymous consulting story? Submit your questions and stories.

Don't want to miss an episode? Be sure to sign up for the podcast newsletter.
Thanks for tuning in! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast platform.
I can’t wait to have you back in the lounge for our next episode!

Chapitres

1. Erika Hall and Mike Monteiro - Consulting with Backbone: Authenticity, Humanity, and the Value of Hard Truths (00:00:00)

2. An introduction and reflection from Kyle (00:00:41)

3.   Introducing Erica and Mike (00:02:21)

4.   The origin story of Mule Design (00:07:11)

5.   Making the decision to hire people and deciding the max size of the company (00:13:06)

6.   Why they named their consultancy Mule Design (00:15:37)

7.   Erika and Mike's holistic perspective on design and research services (00:23:00)

8.   Having to fire a client (00:24:46)

9.   Finding their business lawyer (00:27:04)

10.   Dealing with getting paid after a client was laid off (00:30:33)

11.   The two people you need to find on the first day of a new project (00:32:50)

12.   Have UXers done enough to demonstrate our value to business? (00:35:04)

13.   The importance of being "The Helpers" during these hard times (00:39:48)

14.   How Erika and Mike handle marketing and sales for Mule Design (00:46:38)

15.   Should UX consultants write a book as a means of business development? (00:51:42)

16.   How Erika and Mike would describe UX consulting in one word (00:58:00)