From Corporate to Entrepreneurship, How Drew Paetow has Mastered Growing a Roofing Business

Mission Control Podcast

In this episode, Mike invites Drew Paetow, President of Best Exteriors INC, a former territory manager for GAF with a wealth of experience in both manufacturing and contracting. They delve into customer buying behavior and highlight key red flags to watch out for.

Drew shares insights on optimizing business potential through friendly competition and the art of saying 'no.' The conversation also explores essential questions to ask potential or current manufacturers, providing valuable guidance for businesses in the industry.

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Michael Stearns (00:01.079) It's a great day. It's Monday. Dude, I got to be honest with you. This Monday has been a complete shit show. So don't nothing to be jealous about over here. Welcome back to another episode of the Mission Control podcast. It's your boy Mike Sterns on Digital Agency, bringing you this bringing you this great show. We're delighted to have Drew. We'll get more to that in a minute. Proudly sponsored by the team over at Rufr. If you need roof measurements, clean and pristine proposals.

Drew Paetow (00:01.642) jealous of that, jealous of that hair.

Drew Paetow (00:08.91) I'm done. Hahaha. I'm done.

Michael Stearns (00:29.731) Instant roof quotes? I mean, if you want your customers or future customers, your prospects to buy from you, click the link below. You'll see it in the description. Also, they're a great team. Drew Pato with Best Exteriors, Inc. Welcome.

Drew Paetow (00:48.045) Hi Mike.

Michael Stearns (00:49.107) How are you? Good.

Drew Paetow (00:51.404) I should have worn my Ascend shirt so I killed two birds with one stone. I know.

Michael Stearns (00:54.951) Well, we talked about this in the green room, you owe me a picture in the Ascend shirt, and I will not soon forget. So I'm gonna put you on a drip campaign where you're gonna get daily reminders via email and text if I don't get the fucking picture soon, so...

Drew Paetow (00:58.718) We do. I do. I do. Don't you worry. Don't you.

Drew Paetow (01:09.751) Hey man, they work. Those drip campaigns work. We'll get it done.

Michael Stearns (01:15.151) I got a question for you though. What did one wall say to another?

Drew Paetow (01:17.166) Sure.

Drew Paetow (01:21.786) Ooh, I'm a dad joke aficionado and I don't know this one.

Michael Stearns (01:29.287) I'll meet you in the corner.

Drew Paetow (01:32.074) I thought you were going to say like I meet you in the middle or something. That's a good one. I like that. Well done. I like that.

Michael Stearns (01:39.223) Yeah, so we'll do, yeah. Well, I'm trying to cue up an applause here. Apparently that's not working, but it's power for the course on this Monday that as I.

Drew Paetow (01:48.947) Mike's having technical issues today, so if the quality is bad, it's all him.

Michael Stearns (01:51.963) Yeah.

Michael Stearns (01:56.027) But listen, the content's gonna be fire, so make sure that you tune in from start to finish. We will deliver, it'll pack a punch. Yeah, exactly. So you'd mentioned, when I told you I'm gonna put you on this drip campaign, which I will, if I don't get my picture, you'd mentioned that type of stuff works. What kind of, within your company, what type of stuff are you guys doing to provide a better experience, get better results from things that you're doing in-house?

Drew Paetow (01:59.522) which is all that matters. Which is all that matters. Definitely.

Drew Paetow (02:10.68) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (02:22.598) Oh man. I feel like this has kind of been the year for us to kind of like get like, stop chasing like the bright shiny things and just really kind of focus on what works. After like the, at least three times of actually trying to like, put it into place, we finally got rolling with dope marketing.

a little while ago, I would say probably, probably four or five months ago, and that's been really, really good. We're starting to get calls from that. We're starting to get people like, oh, I've seen you, like you're in the neighborhood. You, you know, you're really, it's a really good brand awareness thing. So that's been really, really working well. And I.

I like the way that works. I like that it, I like the way that it shows up and I don't have to do too much. It's very easy, which, you know, there's not too much that in the life of a roofing contractor that is easy, but that really was after it's like up and running, it's like, okay, cool, nice. So that's been really good.

We use a catch-all on every single one of our roof installs now. That has been really, really good. Some people, I always try to ask if we can set it up the night before. Just leave. And if you leave that there with your logos and just all set up in someone's house covered, because it kind of looks like a hazmat situation, the neighbors.

Michael Stearns (04:15.236) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (04:16.098) text right away. Hey, what do you got going on? What's happening? Everything okay? And it's like, no, we're getting our roof replaced tomorrow. You know, that, that's huge. Now, it's pretty rare. A lot of people don't like you to do it the day before, but if someone's gone out of town, or hey, I'm just going to set up these couple parts right here and just leave these off to the side and then in the morning, guys will finish closing it off. You know, that's really worked well for us. And that gets you some really nice...

some nice buzz in the neighborhood, which, you know, it's a customer, potential customer the other day, hopefully he's a customer. He, he kind of, you know, he was very successful in his professional life and he, he kind of put our world into a very simple sentence, which was, hey man, you know, you're selling a service that people need, you know, once every 20, 25 years.

And you know, you got to be memorable. You got to stick out. And I was like, wow, that's very, I know he's kind of known that, but to hear. A customer say it and recognize that it's like, yeah, we do. We got to, we got to be different. We got to stand out. We have to be more memorable. And, you know, then, you know, him and I talked about branding and stuff that works, what we do, you know, it was, it was very.

Michael Stearns (05:26.066) Right.

Drew Paetow (05:44.474) is the most enlightening customer I've had in a long, long time. And he gave me some really, really good ideas and some stuff that he used, like I said, in his career. And many of those things will be implemented here, you know, once we can kind of pick our spot. So that was I don't at this point. I mean, don't get me wrong. I'd love for him to, you know, choose to work with us. But he I.

Michael Stearns (05:51.536) Mm-hmm

Drew Paetow (06:13.926) I got more out of him than we can really put a price tag on. It was really eye opening and like, okay, cool. Like a consultation almost. Like I'm supposed to be here talking to you about what you need and you're over here telling me everything that I need to be doing. So that was really, that was cool.

Michael Stearns (06:24.264) Hmm

Michael Stearns (06:27.996) Right.

Michael Stearns (06:33.663) Yeah, that's awesome. And I'm glad that you brought that up because I don't know reminds me of like shit that my parents would tell me 100 fucking times when I was a kid, right. And then, you know, I would hear it at school from a teacher and it just met something different hearing it from somebody who was just unbiased. I'm like, you know, and I come home and it comes full circle now because like I have a daughter. And you know, she's like, Oh, I learned this. I'm like, you learned that what? Who taught you that? It's like

Drew Paetow (06:47.626) Yep. Yes.

Drew Paetow (06:56.379) Mm-hmm.

Michael Stearns (07:02.439) I've been telling you that for seven years. But it's crazy, like the affirmation of somebody on the outside, like what that can do psychologically to make something click or to make it more valuable to us sometimes.

Drew Paetow (07:02.626) Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely...

Drew Paetow (07:16.542) Yeah, and to just hear someone say, you know, to just put everything in a nice little nutshell and be like, hey, you're selling something people don't need every day. Like, you're not McDonald's, you're not the grocery store, you're not even a car wash, you're not even selling a new car. Like, you're literally like, you're gonna come in, you know, tear my house apart, leave the same day or the next day, and then no one's ever gonna see you again.

you know, barring anything catastrophic for, you know, like I said, 20, 25 years. So that was really eye opening. And to just hear someone else say that I'm like, do you have friends that are roofing contractors? Like, how did you just like encapsulate this whole business? Well, you know, I started researching stuff and so I'm sure he was on the, you know, I'm sure when he, you know, Googled roofing contractors, he wasn't just looking at reviews, I'm sure he was consuming, consuming content somewhere along the way. So.

Michael Stearns (08:13.839) Yeah, and I mean, I think there's different customers, right, and their buying behavior is not all the same. Like we like to sometimes paint a picture of like, this is our avatar, this is what our customer looks like, and this is how they're gonna behave, but like it's a spectrum, and the way people are going to interact with your brand, other brands and things like that are gonna be remarkably different from one person to the next, even if they're the same age or the same gender, they live in the same area.

Drew Paetow (08:17.579) future.

Drew Paetow (08:26.856) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (08:35.33) for sure.

Michael Stearns (08:40.803) So I always like to plan for all of them, do everything we can to accommodate everybody, and then just cross our fingers, right? Just hope for the best.

Drew Paetow (08:41.302) Everybody's very different.

Drew Paetow (08:46.438) Mm-hmm.

Well, you just kind of, you're right. I mean, you gotta, you always say, you know, you don't want to be all things to all people, but for us, like you kind of have to be all things to a lot of people, or many things to a lot of people, pardon me, and you know, you gotta try and check off as many as those boxes as people have, but you know, there's some people, you know, we can't help you, whether it's I meet you and it's like, hmm, just not.

person that we want to do work with or if it's just not the right situation or they're not ready yet or whatever the case may be but you're 100% right. Not everyone is your customer but not everyone's a good prospect either.

Michael Stearns (09:34.575) What's the best way to turn down a customer? What's your line? So you meet with me? I'm a homeowner, right? Hypothetically, I'm a homeowner that calls out best exteriors. And you just get like, the worst vibes. I start asking questions that you probably don't love things like what is a what is a labor?

Drew Paetow (09:39.646) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Drew Paetow (09:51.546) You come outside with a clipboard. When I get that, it's like, tshhh. It's okay, it's okay. I'm all for organized questions, don't get me wrong. But when I see the clipboard, it's like, damn.

Michael Stearns (09:55.055) Yeah, okay. First red flag clipboard. If you're listening to this and you're a homeowner, don't bring a fucking clipboard to the meeting.

Michael Stearns (10:08.503) Yeah. So if I'm a customer, you come visit me and the first question I asked maybe is something like what's a what's a labor only prize? I've got the materials. Maybe that's something that would turn a contractor off. Maybe not. I don't know. But if I'm if I'm

Drew Paetow (10:13.506) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (10:22.218) Yeah, we don't mess with that. We don't mess with that.

Michael Stearns (10:26.963) If that's the case, right, and then you immediately get the sense that like, this is not somebody that I want to work with, how would a contractor put that in a way with tact to where I don't go blast you because you made me feel like an asshole because I'm not the right customer for you?

Drew Paetow (10:31.746) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (10:39.786) Right.

Drew Paetow (10:45.13) I just feel Mr. Stearns, like our services just don't align with what you need right now. I can refer you to X and Y and Z and I don't I know it happens to us on occasion. I never do it. I'm a huge monumental believer in karma. So like I never send a bad referral or like a bad lead to

one of my main competitors. Like I seem to go up against a lot of the same people a lot, but I don't, you can't talk shit about people. It's a super small world. And even back when I worked for GAF, me and my coworkers used to always say for a really heavily male dominated industry, it's like the middle school, like, you know, girls, you know, lunch table.

because it's just constant drama, constant shit. And so like I never play in that sandbox. For me personally, I just don't do it. So, you know, I have certain competitors that I am very, very friendly with. We trade work with each other, not trade. I refer them to people if it's like a good job, if I'm too busy or I know, you know.

Michael Stearns (11:40.743) Hahaha

Drew Paetow (12:07.038) If I know it's like right up their alley or something like that, I have no problem. We will refer someone so that the customer gets the best experience. Right. Cause at the end of the day, that's really kind of all it's about. Um, so for, for me, that's, that's really big. Uh, but I, I also know there's certain people that.

They'll work cheap. They'll take a labor-only job. They'll do one slate repair on a church steeple or something like that. You kind of get to know who those other competitors of yours are so that you can refer those guys out. Like I said, I hope that when the time comes, if someone wants to refer us to something, whether or not they call us and say, hey, I came from so-and-so.

I think as a contractor, if you, obviously you're not going to say, hey listen, I can't work with you, you know, you're asking too many questions or you know, you already have shingles or whatever. You can't do that. But what you can say is, hey listen, you know, I just don't think that our company lines up with what you're looking for right now. You know, I don't think we're in a position at this very moment to help you. I suggest you call X and Y and Z. So even now, like when we get phone calls of, you know, the person that needs, you know,

one foot of fascia board replaced an hour away or something like that. And so, I'm like, hey, I'm not your guy, but here's who to call. And I feel like if you're at least helpful and you're positive and you have a good tone and you're showing them that you want to help and that you want to care, even though your company is not the one doing the work, I think that goes a long way with most people.

Michael Stearns (13:36.273) Yeah.

Michael Stearns (13:57.259) Yeah, no doubt. I mean, it's, it's you're exercising goodwill, right? Because even if you're not in the position or you don't necessarily want to take that job at that moment, you're still providing them some sort of solution. You're showing that you care enough to not just be like, okay, fucking I'm out. I mean, I do the same thing with, you know, Tim Brown and hook agency, right? Like

Drew Paetow (14:02.581) It's here.

Drew Paetow (14:14.446) Friday.

Drew Paetow (14:19.062) Yeah.

Michael Stearns (14:20.075) And I'll take it a step further. And I'll be like, you know, have you found any of this stuff helpful? Like, you know, because there's usually like a preliminary call. And maybe it's something where there's a conflict of interest where we're maxed out in that market, and we can't take them like, you know, what company that I actively refer people to as hook agency, they do great work. And, you know, after that conversation, I'll ask that prospect like, have you found anything that we've talked about, like helpful? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, would you mind sharing it on Google? It's an opportunity for a review, right? Because you are providing

Drew Paetow (14:30.667) Right.

Drew Paetow (14:45.941) Yeah.

For sure.

Michael Stearns (14:49.431) Right? And I think that... Let me ask you this. Have you always been okay with saying no to people as it relates to your business? Yeah. What made you...

Drew Paetow (14:56.51) Yes, 100%. I mean, go ahead, ask your question. I think I know what you're going to say though.

Michael Stearns (15:05.283) Yeah, what made you okay or realize that not every customer has to be your customer?

Drew Paetow (15:14.658) Uh, that first year in business when I said yes to everything, no matter what it was. And it wasn't until, you know, I'm, you know, painting a fascia board in my, uh, in my garage the night before a gutter installed and I'm like, holy shit, I can't do this. I gotta get real defined on what I can do.

And, you know, don't get me wrong, the subcontracting crews and the folks I have that are on my team that work with me and, you know, they're great. And I believe that a lot of guys can do anything. And there are many, many contractors in my area who have, you know, I think there's one guy here who's got, I've heard, I don't know, like 15, you know, roof repair techs.

Unstaffed like that's ridiculous. I don't think there's that many repairs out there Maybe there are maybe there aren't but that leads to a lot of guys, you know ripping butts and sucking back coffee at you know, 11 o'clock because they're done with their day and Good for them, but you know, I think you got a really You got to say no to some stuff because there's so much out there that you just don't want to get involved in But you only realize that when

they're not, you know, when you only realize that you need to say no once you're in a position of being like, oh my God, I just, I don't know what to do here. Like, how do I, you know, and there's been some times where you just take a job and you just know like, okay, I'm gonna really not make a lot of money here or hopefully the neighbor comes out and I could.

I'm something because I'm not gonna make it here, but that first that first year in business like you learn a lot about What you want to do who you want to work for you learn about what your capabilities are Once you learn what you're capable of Or what you feel comfortable doing it's that usually sticks with you. So You know Yeah, it's it was a tough learning experience

Drew Paetow (17:40.942) That's for sure.

Michael Stearns (17:42.575) Well, it starts with fear for me in my business when I started my business, the evolution is crazy, right? Because you're initially, I was initially fearful that okay.

I just took a leap of faith into myself. I'm starting this business, I got to make as much money as possible. Right? So you don't I don't have the luxury of saying no to anybody. But then you quickly realize when you start saying yes, everyone, you're like, holy fuck, I can't afford to say yes to everybody. Right now. And like you said, now you start narrowly defining, like, who is it that I can say yes to? Who is it that I should say no to? How can I? How can I say no to people without being an asshole and make people hate me? Because, you know, just because you're not a good fit for our company doesn't mean you're not a good fit for somebody, you know, just because

Drew Paetow (18:07.84) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (18:22.778) Or that you're not a bad person. Yeah. Sometimes it just doesn't work.

Michael Stearns (18:24.699) Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. And like you were mentioning, there's guys out there that'll do a slate repair, or they'll go paint three feet of facial and there's different companies that can serve different customers. And that doesn't make them less of a company doesn't make it anything other than just a fit, right?

Yeah, and I was baptized by fire in the first year for sure. You know, wearing 15 hats and running around with my hair on fire trying to figure out how I'm going to do x, y and z because I decided to be like, yeah, we can do it. We'll figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, no doubt. No problem. And it did and they didn't end up manifesting as problems for the for the customers. They were just problems for my sanity. Right? Yeah, yeah. What?

Drew Paetow (18:52.398) Mm-hmm.

Yeah, sure, why not?

Drew Paetow (19:04.555) Right. And for your sleep rhythm on your watch. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Who are you? Who are you?

Michael Stearns (19:08.631) Yeah, what is REM sleep? I haven't had that a long time. Yeah, I gotta start I gotta start saying no. And I think that that's something that was really impactful. And I think a lot of people will struggle with that if they're opening a business, right? That that desire to obviously drive up revenue as much as you can make as much money for that for that sense of security, right? That we that we all want to be able to provide for ourselves, our families and what have you. But you know,

Drew Paetow (19:26.894) For sure.

Drew Paetow (19:35.374) But I think that's also why a lot of people.

I don't want to say don't make it, but a lot of people kind of fade out or get kind of pigeonholed into doing certain stuff because it's really hard to say no. When I came in, I was pretty blessed because I had so much industry knowledge and really just kind of knew already what it took to be successful. But still, you still have to do it. You still have to...

make sure it happens. But there was so much of the of the unknown. And the person went, you know, damn, probably could do this, you know, stupid, you know, gutter guards on someone's house right now, and not have to get myself involved. And I can do it myself. And you know, I can, I can, you know, buy this stuff, I can take all the, you know, take the profit at the end of the job, which, you know,

That stuff goes through your head because that's the goal, right? But at the same time, too, it's also like, you know, did I set the ladder? You know, how much experience do you really have and how comfortable are you doing those things?

Michael Stearns (20:49.731) Yeah, no, I agree. So you had, you previously worked with JF, right? What was your role there?

Drew Paetow (20:56.938) Yes, yep. I was a territory manager, so it was my job to go and call on roofing contractors, help them build their business, and get them to register extended warranties. But it was really to, yeah baby, it's a real deal. But it was also to grow the business, grow the brand, be there for people.

You know you talk about wearing a lot of hats. I mean when you're That was a really good Was a really good place to learn a lot about multitasking because you know there could very well be a phone call that comes in because you know a Truckload of ice and water shield became available or it was a contractor Calling you with a material complaint

Michael Stearns (21:38.352) Mm.

Drew Paetow (21:53.782) you know, you needed to have an answer, like right down in there for them. So it was, that part was great. Like I said, I learned a lot. And you know, you go into some of these companies and you see the good, the bad, and the ugly. You see some people that are really not, you know, gonna do things the right way. And then there's other companies you walk in and it's like, oh my God, like, this guy's got it together. So yeah, there was, there were some, definitely some, some

A lot of takeaways from my time there. And I made some great connections, great friends, great people, and learned a lot. And it was really good while it lasted.

Michael Stearns (22:35.991) Yep, but now I install Owens Corning. Do you install GAF?

Drew Paetow (22:40.278) Certainteed actually. No, hey listen, I have I Got a great rapport with the certainty rep in the area and You know, they helped me really get the ball rolling and get the business Get a good get a good partnership together from like day one. So that was really good for me We've had

no issues, no quality issues, no problems with anything, knock on wood, it's word. And, you know, now, don't get me wrong, if a customer says, hey, I really want this shingle on here, no problem. You can have whatever you want. I don't play favorites. I just, I make a suggestion. If someone wants something else, more than happy to install anything. We are certified with GAF, so, you know, so I can still.

differentiate when that customer wants that specific product. You know, I can differentiate myself and offer them a different warranty and you know still keep on top of what's available and what they're doing and you know make sure that at the end of the day make sure the customers take them.

Michael Stearns (23:57.915) I like that. That's good. Good for you for forging that relationship. And I'm glad that they're looking out for you. So you've got 40 you got 45 seconds where you're going to explain to a young roofing contractor what types of things they should ask for from their manufacturer to help them along in their journey.

Drew Paetow (24:03.959) Yeah, I appreciate it.

Drew Paetow (24:12.243) Oh, ho, ho.

Drew Paetow (24:16.738) 45. Okay, gotcha. You're gonna need to know...

Drew Paetow (24:25.646) Ask me the question again. Sorry, my brain is going about a thousand miles an hour there. I'll probably have to edit that part out.

Michael Stearns (24:31.451) That's fun. Jen chop it out.

Drew Paetow (24:33.198) Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Michael Stearns (24:35.907) in 45 seconds or less explain to me and young contractors what they should be looking for from a manufacturer to help them along in their journey

Drew Paetow (24:46.555) So if I'm a young contractor, I got to first like the product. So try it. Buy a roof of Owens Corning, buy a roof of GAF, Certainty, IKO if you want to, whatever the case may be. But find a brand that you like, that you feel comfortable with. Check them out. Make sure it's a good fit for you. If you're going in and you're just trying to be the cheap guy and

you're not interested in differentiation, you could probably spin your story to be whatever brand you want. If you're only working off insurance proceeds, then the brand that you offer, if you're not gonna try and upgrade people or do certain things, the brand that you offer isn't really the best. So find a shingle that you like, number one. Find a product that you like, find a full system, et cetera, et cetera.

Make sure your distributor has it. Make sure your distributor can get it. Those are obviously very important. I realize I'm already going over the 45 seconds, but the other thing is, is reach out to the territory managers for the different manufacturers. Interview them basically like, hey, what do you have? What tools do you have to help me? Everybody has a lot of different things, whether it's good, better, best, whether it's extended warranties.

Michael Stearns (25:44.423) Mmm.

Drew Paetow (26:10.186) whether it's gimmicks, whether it's sure nail strips, whether it's hey, our three bundles of Archangel are a true square, whatever the case may be, everyone has their thing. Like I said, see which one fits and works best for you and your company. And then ask for help. Hey, how can you help me? You do this every day, Mr. territory manager. What's worked for your biggest customers?

If they're smart, they'll give you generalizations. They're not going to give you all the, they're not going to give you the keys to the, you know, to what, you know, the big dogs in the market are doing, but, you know, you can theoretically put on a lot of the same stuff that some of these other companies are doing and do a lot of the same things. Uh, sometimes you may even have the same subcontractors as some of them. And, you know, you can really differentiate yourself by, you know, by.

by making yourself look as professional as humanly possible in those situations when you're with the homeowner.

Michael Stearns (27:13.235) Mm-hmm.

Michael Stearns (27:18.675) Can we are you in the role play.

Drew Paetow (27:22.35) What are you asking me? Yeah, yeah, sweep.

Michael Stearns (27:26.195) All right, why don't you be a territory manager for a manufacturer and I'll be a I'll be a year one roofing contractor and let's say I'm finishing up my first year and I did. I don't know million dollars in revenue. I had a good first year. Okay. All right. So Drew, we're here at Mike Stern's roofing. We're looking for we're looking for a long term strategic partner that's going to be there for us that's going to grow with us right because we feel as if you know you guys are it.

Drew Paetow (27:29.961) Oh, okay.

Drew Paetow (27:40.302) Okay, yep. Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (27:51.522) Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Michael Stearns (27:55.899) However, at the same time, it's my obligation to my company and my staff to make sure that I'm making decisions that helps them and the company as well. So, you know.

Drew Paetow (28:03.382) benefits everybody. Yep.

Michael Stearns (28:05.071) Yeah, right. One of the truly one of those relationships where everybody wins and you know, I want to know what can we do as far as like, hey, we're looking to increase our marketing, we want to do 3 million next year. So we want to do more marketing, more advertising, more brand awareness. And I'm just curious as to what we can do as far as Maybe having you guys help us contribute with it because, you know, I don't know much, but I feel as if you know the more squares and shingles that I buy from you, the better off it is for you, the better off it is for more customers that we install them for and the better off it is for my pockets.

Drew Paetow (28:15.938) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (28:31.8) Definitely.

Michael Stearns (28:34.985) So I feel like everyone wins there. Is there something that you can do to help me?

Drew Paetow (28:37.65) Everyone wins. Yes, absolutely. Let's talk about the certification program. That'll give you a leg up against Joe Reifer. And it adds to your level of professionalism. So at the end of the day, when Mr. and Mrs. Smith are sitting there with three to five estimates, and one guy is down here, and you know.

you're in the middle and then there's whoever else and they're pick a number, 1,000, 1,200 bucks a square, whatever the case may be, you're able to get that job and just based on professionalism and being in this program. So with that, you can offer extended warranties, which again, gives the homeowners better.

gives the homeowners better peace of mind and protection knowing hey you know you have a full system of integrated products on here that's gonna give you a 50 year labor and material warranty that's transferable to the next homeowner. We as a company have gone through training we've been vetted by the manufacturer so we've been trained our insurances licenses have all been vetted so you know we have you know basically a multi-billion dollar company backing us up and

I don't know about who else you have in here going through. I don't know who I'm competing against sometimes, but I feel like that's a pretty good tool in the home for you.

Michael Stearns (30:16.023) Yeah, absolutely. No, I could see how that would be very valuable, especially when it comes to the consumer making a good decision and how that would help us.

Drew Paetow (30:22.142) Right. So let's also talk about the marketing that you're asking about. When you're certified, you have access to all these different tools and we can help you with your websites. We can recommend different things to you. We can put you on a postcard campaign. We can give you pretty folders to put your materials and things like that into. We can...

Drew Paetow (30:49.614) We can help you with a membership through NRCA, all those sorts of things. So there's a lot of different stuff out there that you have access to and availability to.

Michael Stearns (30:59.435) Awesome. Yeah, I have a I have a buddy. He's been in business for like three years now and he's doing pretty well. He's like five or 6 million. But he works with another manufacturer. But essentially what they did was they put together like a tiered system as far as like marketing and advertising to where based on the purchase volume of shingles, they were going to contribute X amount of dollars to like his marketing advertising. Is that is he bullshitting me? Or is that something that you guys could help with?

Drew Paetow (31:15.267) Good evening.

Drew Paetow (31:27.158) Are we still role playing here? Okay, good. Let me get that hat back on. Absolutely, we can help you with that. Let's set up a program. Let's work backwards based on your goal. If your goal is three million, three million's probably gonna be somewhere around 125, 150 roofs-ish. So let's work backwards. Let's figure out how many squares you did.

Michael Stearns (31:29.425) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (31:55.466) Yeah, we'll set up that campaign and every time you know, you hit a different gate, you know, you'll get more from us. And you know, you can get you all the logos and all the things like that and get you really where you need to be in terms of your marketing. You know, having that consistent message, but you know, hey, I need to see our company logo on your stuff when that time comes. So, so you have an ad.

Michael Stearns (32:22.671) Yeah, I got this marketing guy. He said he said something about brand guidelines and they would follow the brand guidelines I don't know what any of this shit means. I'm just a roofer, but I would pass that along to him and yeah

Drew Paetow (32:28.966) Yep. No, that's cool. Perfect, yep. Everything would be cool then. Just ask that if we come to you with a, if we come to you with an opportunity or with a, hey man, I need you to do X and Y and Z, let's talk about that. You're also gonna be held to a certain standard of, you're not gonna be out there.

Cutting corners, you know, taking deductibles, doing things unprofessionally, like this is a professional program and it's gonna be treated like such, otherwise we don't have a place for it.

Michael Stearns (33:07.567) okay and i mean i think that's fair uh... my promise to do my paperwork on my warranties very quickly and that made my wife to him she's super excited about it so you know we'll get that squared away and will

Drew Paetow (33:14.038) there.

She's excited about spending all that money? Yeah, I got it. Ha ha ha.

Michael Stearns (33:21.787) Um, yeah. So, you know, one other thing.

Drew Paetow (33:27.699) Everybody always used to be super excited about, we're going to register all these warranties and every homeowner is going to get one. Man, I was like, I'm going to get one. But now we're not real playing anymore, but we'll get it done.

Michael Stearns (33:37.155) Now we're now we're back to role playing. One other thing that's important to me is I want to be like at the top level as far as like accreditation with your manufacturer. I think that that's super important. My my buddy, he works with different manufacturers like, you know, platinum or some crazy metal. I don't even remember what the metal was, but he's at like the top. And I think that there's a lot of credibility associated with that. So like, what does my path to that look like with your company?

Drew Paetow (33:44.106) Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Drew Paetow (34:03.81) So there are, here it is, it's always written out, it's always written like the manufacturers always have that. You sometimes can fudge around it, to my fellow roofers, sometimes can fudge around it, sometimes they can, sometimes they can't, it all just depends. But anyway, back to our role play, you have to be in business for a certain number of years. One of the things that we used to always look for back in my day was a track record of success.

Michael Stearns (34:12.138) Mm.

Drew Paetow (34:33.27) So you're either successful using our products or with another manufacturer's products. And it was pretty much that you were kind of committed to the brand. And I mean, just like the shingles, like you're purchasing the accessory products and you were doing all those sorts of things too. Again, you know, there's an incentive for us both.

I don't just have a shingle plant, I have an accessory plant, I have a warranty plant. So again, you help me with my plans, I'll help you with your plans. And that was the way that I would hopefully find the right people that would get us to where we needed to be on my end and that's what we can do for you.

Michael Stearns (35:23.119) i like that now we'll have a role play i think that uh... i think sometimes it's here i've been a part of a couple these conversations uh...

Drew Paetow (35:27.938) I'll PTSD from that.

Drew Paetow (35:35.248) Yeah.

Michael Stearns (35:36.303) So this is how I look at it. I'm just literally I'm just a marketing guy, right? I work closely with my clients and I've been a part of these conversations and like I was working with one manufacturer with them and like they weren't committing to like a Gate system as far as like what they they're like, we don't do anything like that I'm like, I'm like here like and from my

Drew Paetow (35:54.71) then adjust.

Michael Stearns (35:56.799) Yeah, exactly. Right. And I'm like, I'm like, you guys don't have to understand, like, they're a very large company, and they're investing, right. And if they have X amount of dollars to invest into one market, right, that's going to get divvied up. And that's probably going to go to the people that bring them the most like it makes sense, right. So if you're like a younger company trying to prove yourself, you have to make them feel compelled to invest into your company. Otherwise, they'll probably give it to somebody else. But like the way

Drew Paetow (36:22.031) Yeah.

Michael Stearns (36:22.971) The way that we approached it was like, okay, so number one, like our year over year growth for this particular client was fantastic over three years, right? They were still a younger company, but the year over year growth was fantastic. He had very good data in his CRM as far as revenue, profit, gross net profit, right? And as far as like marketing mediums, what channels were actually driving traffic? You know, we touched on like the lifetime value of him as a customer, him being 33 years old, and like how long he plans to be in that market versus somebody.

Drew Paetow (36:50.956) Yeah, that's a young dude. That's a young dude. You gotta jump on that.

Michael Stearns (36:55.087) Right. So like we're just painting a picture as far as all the different value propositions of like investing into a younger company. Right. Because it just makes sense. And after three meetings the conversation changed. Right. When we started talking about like the cost per acquired lead the cost per acquired job and how we have a very proven process as far as marketing and advertising and how we just want to scale that and we wanted to leverage them to help that and how it's going to benefit everybody.

they got considerably more as far as a commitment. And it wasn't just like, hey, submit this, and we'll do what we can, right? Because that's the easy out that everybody wants is like, non committal, we'll do what we can because there's not you can't hold accountability to that, right? You can't hold that accountable.

Drew Paetow (37:30.539) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (37:36.362) Yeah, like now again, I haven't worked, I haven't worked there since 2020. So I don't know 100% how things are going or how things go now. Um, but you know, if there is definitely a, Hey, you know, you scratch my back. I'll scratch yours. We'll do, you know, if you're doing, you know, 5,000 squares, you're going to get this. If you're doing 7,500, you're going to get this. Uh, if you're doing 10,000, you're going to get this. But.

If you're gonna do those things, I need X and Y and Z from you. You know, whatever that may be. And you know, sometimes it just happens organically and naturally, and you know, you just hit it off with a certain contractor and their business grows and you're there, you know, for the ride. But then there's other times where it's just like everything is like pulling teeth and commitments get broken and stuff like that. And that's really when... That's when it sucks.

right? Because you got to go in there and you got to say, hey listen, you know, I heard you're not, you know, you're not doing this, you're not doing that. I heard, you know, you have a big, I drove by a big, you know, condo project and I saw you using another brand, that sort of stuff. I mean, that's when things get really kind of, can get sideways and that's, that sucks. Because there's really not a lot, you know,

Michael Stearns (38:51.859) Sure.

Drew Paetow (38:58.154) when you're when you're a manufacturer, what the hell are you gonna do? You can't do anything except be pissed. And you know, it's like, you know, you don't want to go out and like, sign up someone new or take their, you know, our genomy on or something like that and sign them up and give them all the same program. Like, you don't want to do that. But you also want to like get the relationship with, you know, back in and like, hey, how do we get this partnership kind of back on track? So it's a really

Michael Stearns (39:04.017) Right.

Michael Stearns (39:17.398) Right.

Drew Paetow (39:27.658) It's a tough thing sometimes to really kind of balance all that stuff. And then sometimes, you know, you get to be such good friends with some of these people when they're not doing what they are supposed to be doing or what's kind of corporately mandated, you know, it gets real difficult when you got to walk in there, you're like, Hey man, I got to boot you out of the program. You know, you're not doing this. Uh, your insurance isn't great. Uh, I've heard, you know, you know, hearing ramblings on the street, you know, you're

you're not doing the right things, you know, hearing you don't, you know, your insurance flaps, whatever the case may be, you know, those are all difficult conversations. Those are tough to have with people that you're friendly with. Those are really difficult conversations to have when you're friends with people, so. I don't miss those days. I don't miss those days, man, I don't miss that.

Michael Stearns (39:59.535) But...

Michael Stearns (40:08.913) Right.

Michael Stearns (40:14.375) How important is it? I'm sorry, go ahead. I don't miss those days.

Now you mentioned a scenario where you drive by, they're installing something else, right? Now is that something that could be addressed on the front end because you said you do certain teed, but if a customer wants, like I have this GAF HDZ shingle I want installed, you're like, hey, I'll install it. So is that something where just be transparent on the front end with your rep, like, hey, while we're going to do this and we're going to stick to our end of the deal, I want you to know that, like, if a customer insists on wanting a shingle, I'm not gonna force a shingle down their throat, right?

Drew Paetow (40:33.046) You think? Yeah.

Drew Paetow (40:45.054) Of course, absolutely, absolutely. I mean, and I think most manufacturers reps, if they're getting 80 to 90% of your business, I think they're very, very happy with that. But there's always gonna be that one homeowner that wants something different. Or, you know, we've had a couple people lately who are just like, and I don't know where they're getting their information from, and just like, hey, I want this.

do you? Are you sure? Yeah, exactly. Like who sold you? Um, because I want to hire a man to sell you that. Uh, again, I'm not gonna name names, but there's some stuff out there that is just trash. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't want to have that installed on my worst enemies home. But if that's a situation where that's what someone wants, then hey, go for it, act yourself out. You know,

Michael Stearns (41:18.143) Why?

Michael Stearns (41:29.149) course.

Drew Paetow (41:45.954) We can do a lot of things. There's certain There's certain stuff. I would really try to You know, it's funny. I had a customer who Reminds me. I had a customer back in Massachusetts who He had it specifically on his contract that if you chose a certain brand of shingle that He is his warranty ended the day they were done with the roof

Michael Stearns (42:14.567) Ah, haha.

Drew Paetow (42:16.254) He was, I uphold and you know, he would, he would call it out. I have pulled all professional standards. We will install your roof the same way as we would any other brand. But I have found that this manufacturer and my 30 years of business, you know, it does not honor their warranties as no problem screwing over a homeowner. And your warranty ends the second to last nail goes in on this job. And, you know, it could not have been any more clear and, you know, made them, you know, initial it and sign it.

like all this stuff and it's like oh my god but that's just that's what he would do because he just knew that hey this is just but that particular brand of shingles was very popular at that time and um it was just really not what you wanted to see so but i thought that was very smart but i am

Michael Stearns (43:05.615) I mean, it is right like be honest be forthright and let them know like what to expect like hey If you're gonna do this expect this and like you got to be okay with that But and he's okay with losing the job if they're not okay with that simulation, right? Which there's a risk to that for his revenue But at the end of the day his reputation is not gonna go to shit because he refuses to you know Go back and right. It's uh, that's I like this guy. I don't know who he is, but I like him If you still talk to him tell him I said hi

Drew Paetow (43:09.602) for sure. Yeah.

Drew Paetow (43:17.686) For sure, for sure, for sure.

Drew Paetow (43:25.439) Exactly.

Drew Paetow (43:31.914) Yeah, good man. I will.

Michael Stearns (43:33.731) Yeah. How important is it to like should contractors shop for different relationships for manufacturers, suppliers, and if so, how frequently should they do that?

Drew Paetow (43:36.803) been there.

Drew Paetow (43:48.598) I don't know man, that's a tough one. I have heard, I know some companies, they, some companies they would do this every year. But you know, it's really hard to switch. It's really difficult. You know, you gotta change all your quote templates, you gotta get all your certifications and stuff like that in line. Like it's tough to switch. But I think.

Michael Stearns (44:04.519) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (44:17.078) You know, there's always that natural inclination like, oh man, I wonder if the grass is greener. I wonder if someone's getting a ton more sales by using this brand or this brand or this brand. I just never found that to be the case. I think if you're a company, you can do what you need to do and you can form your story, get your credentials in line, get your...

Get your story, your customer story set, and have a really good product that you feel comfortable with. There's certain ones that I just don't, I just never understood why people would wanna do that every year. Now some people were shopping, they're shopping for a rebate, which is cool, hey, I get it, I understand, I know that's part of it. But there's other companies.

where it's like every three to five years, and we're gonna take a look, we're gonna interview different vendors, we're gonna check things out. And I always kinda like that because, especially as a customer that I was working with for a long time, I always liked that because I would feel good and be like, hey man, you know me, you know how we deal with things, you know how I take care of you guys, that time we went fishing, blah, I took care of Mr. Jones.

Michael Stearns (45:37.971) Thanks for watching!

Drew Paetow (45:39.042) took care of Mr. Stern's, whatever the case may be, you know, you could really do what you needed to do, really take care of them. But sometimes that actually kind of solidified things where it's like, oh, I wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. Well, it isn't. But I think everyone, you know, there's always that match. And don't get me wrong, like I look at some manufacturers, you know, like literature pieces.

Michael Stearns (45:56.915) Hmm.

Drew Paetow (46:07.778) samples and some of their colors. I'm like, damn man, this looks good. This looks really good on the house. But then it's like, okay, if someone really wants something different or like a really cool look, like I'll, I'll hook them up with that, but I'm not going to get too far in the weeds with certain things. It's just too much. It's such a pain in the ass to switch. And like I said, to just learn new language and, you know, winter guard to weather watch to weather law. I mean, it's like, Jesus.

Michael Stearns (46:11.59) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (46:37.438) You know, I got too much, I have limited space up here for trade names in different provinces. I've got to maximize whatever spots I have left available.

Michael Stearns (46:50.44) Makes sense.

What's the toughest lesson you've learned in business since you started?

Drew Paetow (46:58.638) Um, wow. Toughest lesson.

Drew Paetow (47:07.094) I think saying no, number one, that's going to save you and avert many crises that will pop up. I think that's really number one. Say no. You've got to have really good installation crews and you've got to take care of them, whether it's...

you know, spending, you know, when you go to the grocery store, you know, buy a case of Red Bull or buy a couple cases of extra water, put those things on ice and show up to a job site with an ice down, you know, Gatorades and Monster Energy Drinks or Red Bulls or whatever the, whatever your crew likes, you know, whatever that is, you know, find out what it is. And if you show up to a job site like that, then they will go the extra mile for you. Like there's no doubt.

So always take care of your crews, learn to say no to people. And I know it gets talked about a lot on many different podcasts and things like that and whatever else, there's actually two more. Avoid the bright shiny thing. Just focus on implementing one to three, depending on your bandwidth, new things. Integrate those in every year if you can do that.

I think my first year, man, I went all in. I bought so much shit that I didn't use, and I wasted so much money and time and just sitting there like, oh, this is gonna be great. And I was like, oh, I never did any of it. I just didn't have the bandwidth for it. It was only me, and you just don't have the time, and you're sitting there at the end of the day, and I'll never forget chipping ice dams one day out of people's gutters all day.

Trying to stop leaks and things like that and then like sitting there freezing my ass off like I'm gonna write a blog about You know, this is when I did my own website. I'm gonna write a blog about you know about ice dams But you know, that's what you had to do and then the Kind of the most important thing and I don't get like I said, I know it gets talked about a lot

Drew Paetow (49:33.522) is really understanding the health of your business financially and understanding where you're at in terms of what are you spending, what are you bringing in, what can you afford to pay yourself, what can you afford to pay someone else, how you're going to pay them, whether it's either 10.99 or the W-2, whatever the case may be, you need to really get that part figured out.

and make sure your business is very compliant. There are certain, you know, not only, obviously, you know, numbers are important, but there are certain locales that are very tight on who can work for you, when they can work, what classification do they have to have. You know, you gotta know where your working rules and regulations really well, and you gotta operate within them.

really keep that together because that's really...

Michael Stearns (50:40.815) I think those are some really good lessons to have learned. And I think they'll be very helpful to people that are listening.

Drew Paetow (50:45.367) Yeah.

I hope so. I hope so. Hopefully no one makes the same mistake I made. Some of the mistakes I've made. Hopefully no one does that. That's the plan anyway.

Michael Stearns (50:56.903) Well, let's hope. We'll cross our fingers and pray for the best. Do you have any questions for me?

Drew Paetow (51:05.678) Um, well, Mike, there has been a lot lately at press time, a lot of, you know, I would call it hate, but it's more like frustration with marketing companies. Uh, online, there seems to be a lot of, you know, how am I getting leads? I've spent this and not getting this, whatever the case may be. You know, you asked me about interviewing, uh, shingle manufacturers.

walk me through interviewing a digital marketing company to help grow and scale your roofing.

Michael Stearns (51:44.407) Okay, what side of it do you want me to play? You want me to be the roofer? You want me to be the marketing company? Oh, okay. So...

Drew Paetow (51:48.671) I don't really want to role play, man. It's almost 5 o'clock, dude. I'm going on being awake for 12 hours. I don't have much. No, I'm just kidding. I can if you want to. But, I mean, to you, what makes a good partner for a certain company?

Michael Stearns (51:54.047) Alright, he's all roleplayed out, folks. Got it, got it. Alright, so... No, it's fine.

Michael Stearns (52:06.547) um... yes so lake track record right so and i don't mean just like all i saw four people tag this guy in face book like and that's what is going to give my money like you know that shit there's a lot of indicators right

Drew Paetow (52:15.758) Hehehe

Michael Stearns (52:20.987) that you should take into consideration when making investments, right? And we'll talk, we'll stick to marketing because I'm definitely not a finance guy and I'm definitely not proficient in investing. In fact, my crypto's down like 10 grand since I first bought it, so I'm pretty inept when it comes to that. But what I'll say, yeah, seriously, click the link below.

Drew Paetow (52:26.326) Definitely.

Drew Paetow (52:33.31) Word. Me too.

Drew Paetow (52:41.301) So someone better sign up at the end of this is what he's saying. Appreciate it.

Michael Stearns (52:48.879) I think I think track record is important I don't think that that's something that you should only rest on though because there's a lot of legacy brands out there right companies that did really well for a long time and then they fall off and they're not what they were at one time right so they may have some people saying some good things but. You know they've kind of they've kind of evolved into less than what they were and maybe you succumb to that experience and lackluster performance because of it so. Maybe look at reviews sort of by most recently asked to talk to the people that they work with right.

and ask them questions, right? Don't let them just necessarily steer the conversation in a way that paints this person in the most beautiful light possible. Come in with intentional questions to ask that person that you're interviewing. I'd recommend maybe doing somebody who had just recently signed up, maybe the last 60 days, someone that's been with them for six months, someone that's been with them for a year plus, maybe two years, so that you can see kind of like, hey, because a lot of people have a tendency like, hey, sign the contract, then we're moving on, okay. And that can result in a shitty experience.

Drew Paetow (53:39.372) Anyway...

Michael Stearns (53:48.613) first six months we're gonna make sure we take extra special care of our customers and then you know they kind of lose focus and then they're kind of brushed to the side for the new customers and whatnot and you don't want to necessarily for that to be the case so that's something that would definitely take a look at ask them I made a quite I made a piece of content like 18 questions as a marketing company before hiring them

right and there's a lot of good stuff within that video the video quality sucks by the way but if you go to the ascend digital agency YouTube channel you can watch a really shitty quality video with really good information and it's just it's I sat down it was like seven o'clock I was sitting in my office was like one of the first nights I was actually in an office and not at Starbucks or my table and I was like what are all the

Drew Paetow (54:29.143) Do you hear me?

It's a great feeling to be in your own space, man. That's awesome.

Michael Stearns (54:34.871) Yeah. Oh, there's no doubt about it.

But I sat there and I thought, what are the things that I most recently hear of why people are reaching out to us, right? Because we're usually the second or third company that a customer's or prospective customer's reaching out to. And it's because we're more expensive, like honestly. We're at the top end as far as what it's going to cost to work with us, but we provide what I think is exceptional value. So with that being said, I made these. And it's things like, hey, do I own my Google Analytics? So if you don't know what Google Analytics are, they're essentially going to be the gauge

indicators for website traffic, where traffic is coming from so you can take data and try to understand like what's going on with your website and things around it. Do you own your website? Like a lot of companies, they sell you a website, but you actually lease it, right? You're making small monthly payments and it's attractive because they're not charging you a $10,000 setup fee. They're not charging you $25,000 for the website, but you don't own anything, right? And they're not necessarily always forthright with the fact that, hey, you don't actually own this.

and you get a website, you can check it off the box. You know, the problem is two years later, you go to leave that company, and now you don't realize that you didn't own the website this entire time. Make it even worse, like the domain. Make sure you own your domain. Like if you're gonna work with a marketing company and you're a new company, buy your domain from GoDaddy, right?

own your domain and give them access because any type of work if you buy a website, it's going to be associated with that domain. Because otherwise the marketing company can hold you hostage, right? Oh, you want to leave you've been with us for three years, I'd hate to see all this go away because we actually own your domain. Now they may not word it that way. But essentially, a lot of the time is that's kind of the standoff that you end up in. And it's you're not like if I'm negotiating, I want to be in a position of leverage and strength and you're definitely not in a position of strength there. So don't let that happen to you.

Drew Paetow (56:23.306) No.

Michael Stearns (56:25.423) Do you own your ad account? That's another big one. A lot of agencies, and there's not necessarily anything wrong with this, but just knowing is what's important. A lot of agencies have like an agency ad account where they run all their stuff through and they bill it to their card and their customers pay them for their ad account or their ad spend and the management. And then there's some agencies that'll just say, hey, give us access to your ad account. We'll build out your campaigns.

And one's more transparent than the other, right? If I tell you, Drew, hey, we're gonna spend $10,000 a month, 120K a year, this is your management fee. You just pay us our management fee and you're gonna see Google actually charging your credit card. You know exactly what's being spent. There's never any question if there's any tricks or smoke and mirrors that are at play. I hate to say it, but I've seen it happen, right? Like there's literally softwares where you can say, hey, 10.

Drew Paetow (57:08.374) funny business. Yeah, it happens. It happens a lot.

Michael Stearns (57:14.731) You can literally link up an ad account and be like, hey, mark this up 10%. So it makes everything inflated by 10%. Your spend, your conversion, everything, right? And it's crazy that shit like that exists, but it does. So transparency is super important. Make sure you like talking to the fucking people, right? Like, you know, I'm not going to lie.

And I'm gonna put it on the roofers right now that are listening, like you have a responsibility to your company and the people within it to make sure that you take this shit seriously, right? You can't just say, hey, Mike, I'm gonna give you this handful of money and like make my problems go away. That's not how it fucking works. And it's not gonna work like that with me, with Tim, with any other like reputable marketing company. It's a two way street. You have to be invested in it. So make sure that if you're forging a relationship that's gonna be longterm, make sure you can tolerate talking to the person because there's plenty of places that have good food

I won't go back to because the experience sucked or the people suck there and I'm like, look at how good the steak was I can't fucking stand those people Sorry, and I love steak, right? Big steak guy. Give me give me a ribeye medium rare Alright, maybe a little charred seasoning on it like Pittsburgh style or something. I mean, I'm a sucker for it. But if I don't Yeah, yeah, that's maybe one time when we're in Columbus. We'll grab a steak if you got a good spot we can go to

Drew Paetow (58:10.958) Mm-hmm.

Drew Paetow (58:22.58) I like that too.

Drew Paetow (58:29.514) Hey dude, I'm from upstate New York. I'll get back to Buffalo, I'll take you.

Michael Stearns (58:33.575) I'll bring you to Buffalo Chop House. For me, it's the best ribeye in town.

Drew Paetow (58:37.262) Dude, I used to stay, so back in my GAF days, when I first, first started, Buffalo is part of my territory. I used to go to a place in Chituaga called the Friar's Table. The place was awesome. Dude, it was so great, but now I guess it's out of business, so.

Michael Stearns (58:46.7) Oh yeah, it was my dad's favorite restaurant.

Michael Stearns (58:52.163) Yeah, I never got to experience it, but I heard many stories. Yeah.

Drew Paetow (58:55.482) Yeah, that was a good spot. That was a good, good spot. That was a good spot. I have not. I have not. But I will... Don't tempt me with a good time. I will get myself up there and get that taken care of. A couple shackles. Hey, that way it's a business meal.

Michael Stearns (58:59.899) Have you had the shop house or a buy?

Oh, buddy.

Michael Stearns (59:10.159) Listen, fuck around and find out. I'll scround together a couple coins and figure out how I can... And maybe we do a live broadcast. Yeah, get some shackles together.

Exactly. Get audited. They're like, sir, a $500 meal. It was for business. I actually have a podcast about it. Go check it out. Yeah, exactly.

Drew Paetow (59:24.956) Um

Drew Paetow (59:29.686) Here's the video, pal. Can I just say one thing based on what you said earlier? My first year in business, I built my own website because I got quoted like astronomical numbers. And I was like, holy crap, I can't believe how much this stuff costs. So I built my own website. But I partnered with a company for six-ish months-ish. And I found out like what you said, I did not own my Google app.

Michael Stearns (59:36.924) For sure.

Drew Paetow (59:59.522) Thankfully, thankfully I held onto my page even though they were trying to get that from me as well I just never did for whatever reason Call it, you know being smart for once but they You know, there was no data with that there was no hey I need this back and it was like mush basically like all gone so, you know

I've made those mistakes. I've paid the people and said, hey, we're gonna get you, you know, however many you know, can you handle? Can you handle an extra, you know, you know 15 jobs a month? I'm like, I'm a new company. Fuck. Yeah I got nothing else to do the phone ain't ringing otherwise like fuck. Yeah, what can we do? And there's these face No, it was just like the work I will never forget calling these people who put their names in these forms on Facebook

Michael Stearns (01:00:38.147) Yeah. Let's get it. Game time.

Drew Paetow (01:00:53.322) Yeah, my name is Drew with Best Exterior Zinc. I don't know, you filled out some information on the site. I didn't do that. It's like, oh yeah, are you the guy giving away the free roof or the showcase roof in my area? I'm like, uh, am I? And it was, yeah, it's like, we're giving away free roofs. This motherfucker's like, the stuff that they, these forms, it's like, and you're not consulted at all on any of this. It's just like, hey, you know.

Michael Stearns (01:01:08.156) Do what now?

Michael Stearns (01:01:15.288) Hot lead.

Michael Stearns (01:01:20.251) Yeah.

Drew Paetow (01:01:22.234) Click here for a free roof. Who wouldn't put in their information? It's like, oh my god. Yeah, so I've made all those mistakes. So what Mike was saying earlier is definitely extraordinarily valid.

Michael Stearns (01:01:37.059) Yeah, and I would say that like, it's not always malicious intent either. Like a lot of the times like the sales rep for these companies, they don't even know like what Google Analytics are they like their corporate trained sales reps are like, yeah, here's a 10 page script. Here's the situations you're going to come across. Here's your objections. Here's how you're going to overcome those objections. These are trial closes. Like this is like a day in your life of a sales pitch. And they just don't have access to the information. But at the end of the day, whether it's malicious intent, intent.

Drew Paetow (01:01:41.354) No.

Drew Paetow (01:01:45.554) No. They're just there to sail.

Drew Paetow (01:01:57.822) you. Yup.

Michael Stearns (01:02:04.943) Or, um, it's ignorance, right? It's like, it's like murder versus manslaughter. Like, you're still going to fucking jail. Like, there's still going to be a shitty outcome. It is, right? It's the only difference.

Drew Paetow (01:02:14.202) Yeah, exactly. No, that's very true. That's very true. It's uh, yeah, somehow, someway, something didn't go right for someone. But yeah, it's all those guys, it's like boiler room. Those dudes are in cubicles. And they're just calling, calling. It's like, damn, like, it's a great movie. Haven't seen, haven't seen, yeah, two minutes. Carve out a couple hours, that's a good one. All those actors in there were so young.

Michael Stearns (01:02:30.459) Fucking Boiler Room. That's a great movie by the way. If you're tuning into this and you haven't seen Boiler Room, go take a-

Michael Stearns (01:02:39.847) Yeah. Who's past their series seven here? Alright, get the fuck out. Hahahaha

Drew Paetow (01:02:43.214) HAHA

Michael Stearns (01:02:47.899) No, I'm serious, leave. Yeah, so good.

Drew Paetow (01:02:52.238) I haven't seen that in a long time.

Michael Stearns (01:02:54.743) And you made a really good point too, right? Like not all leads are created equally. And if something's too good, sounds too good to be true, it probably is like investigate like outrageous claims that people are making to you in order to make you try to feel compelled to buy their product or their service. Because there are plenty of like, I can put together any type of like Google data, studio report or analytics to overly inflate and make you fucking buy anything I want you to buy for me. But at the end of the day, like that's not the type of company that we are, but there are a lot of unfortunately nefarious actors.

Drew Paetow (01:03:04.365) Yes.

Drew Paetow (01:03:24.11) There's a ton of those people, yes.

Michael Stearns (01:03:24.797) in the marketing space, you know, so just, or call me, give me a shout. You know, if you've got questions, slide in the DMs, hit me up. I'll give you objective feedback if nothing else. After I answer your questions, I'll probably tell you should pay me, you know, 1500 bucks to spend a couple hours with me and then I can give you like a lot of information that'll really help you. But first one's free, you got it here, it's being recorded, so there you go. On the house, lead with value.

Drew Paetow (01:03:48.366) It's on my house.

Michael Stearns (01:03:52.779) Dude, this was amazing. I had such a good time and I think there was so much in here that's gonna help all the folks listening. Hopefully there's more than like one or two people listening. Good looking guy like yourself, I think will attract a big crowd, so yeah.

Drew Paetow (01:04:01.03) I hope so. I hope so too. You're the one with the good beard and the good hair, man. I'm noticing that the gray is being overshadowed here and really kind of losing ground. Business must be going well with the gray. The grays are outnumbering the dark browns and blacks. But no, like Mike was saying.

Michael Stearns (01:04:07.411) Listen, dude.

Michael Stearns (01:04:16.259) I'm just, uh... ..haha!

Michael Stearns (01:04:21.85) Hmm

Drew Paetow (01:04:31.534) If someone has a question, I'm far from an expert. Uh, you know, I made a hundred thousand mistakes. Maybe a shitload more. If you're a brand new and you have questions or something I can help you with or anything like that, you know, feel free, you know, again, message me. Uh, I'm out there. I'm more than happy to help again. And if I can't, I can't help you. I will tell you what to call to maybe find some help because some stuff, I'm just not an expert.

later now.

Michael Stearns (01:05:02.759) And that's why you're my guy. One big ecosystem of people trying to help others. That's what we're about here. So thank you, Drew. Thank you to all the listeners. Thank you to Rufr for help making this possible. And we gone.

Drew Paetow (01:05:05.462) Hehehe

Drew Paetow (01:05:11.446) Definitely. Thank you.