Pernille Ripp: Honoring and Centering Our Students, Especially in a Pandemic

CCIRA Literacy Conversations

Transcript created using Maestra. We apologize for any errors.

00:00:00 Molly Rauh
Hello and welcome back to the CCIRA literacy conversations podcast. I'm your host Molly Rauh with my co-host , Jessica Rickert.

00:00:09 Jessica Rickert
Today's podcast features Pernille Ripp. Pernille's work centers around creating a classroom environment based on student needs. Pernilleshares how important it is to keep students in the forefront of teaching and how to bring joy into the classroom and slow down to support students' learning . Welcome Pernille. We're so excited to have you on the podcast. Would you start out by telling us a little bit about yourself and your background?

00:00:39 Pernille Ripp
Sure. So my name is Pernille Ripp. And most days you can find me in seventh grade English and Oregon, Wisconsin, right outside of Madison, Wisconsin. Or of course, at home, with my own for kids, trying to navigate what it means to be a teacher and a parent during an ongoing Global pandemic. If I'm not teaching or with my own kids, I'm usually either reading or writing or speaking. We're running the Global Read Aloud, which kicked off this week. And so there's always lots to do and lots of crazy busy-ness. But I would say that I'm easily found, and I love usually wherever I'm at. And I just like to try to think about how we can change all the things that we see need to be changed, and what we can do within the frameworks that we work within, and how we can continually provide students opportunities to reclaim the power that so many of our systems have taken away from them, whether it's within their reading and writing instruction, but also just in like, how they get to be in our schools and the systems that we have set up for them thereA

00:01:49 Molly Rauh
Awesome. So my first question for you, Pernille, is just thinking about my own time and energy as a teacher. What was it that kick-started for you, like going beyond teaching in your classroom and starting to write professional development resources for teachers? And then where do you find the time and energy to do all the great things you do? Because the rest, the rest of us need to know.

00:02:20 Pernille Ripp
Yeah, I don't think there's such a thing as finding time, right? Like I think I make the time, and some days I feel super balanced and on top of the world and other days, I definitely don't. And I will say that the last 19 months. Now, with pandemic teaching, my world has been completely off kilter. I have not blocked as little as I have in all the years since I've been blogging. Even tonight. I sat outside for maybe 30 minutes, drinking a cup of tea, and just trying to read it. Book. And like my brain just could not connect with the words that I was seeing on the page. But I also say, like I have an incredible support system, right? I have a husband who is super invested in making sure that I have space to process, because that's how my writing started. It was a frustration with what I was doing, and then recognizing that some of the things that I was doing had been directly passed on to me in Traditions, right from helpful mentors and and college experiences. And also just what I had witnessed whatever was the traditions of teaching. And I was just really frustrated with how I had ended up becoming a product of the system that didn't work for all kids. And so I spoke a lot about it to my husband, and he's super, and he's a first-year teacher. He's really into education as well. But he was the one that said, you know, you really like writing, and he thought about writing about it. And so that's how it started. It started and continues to just be this, this kind of ongoing dialogue with the world, but also a monologue with myself with going. Okay, I saw this. And here are my thoughts. And here's what I'm going to try and hear what? Here's why this doesn't work. And so my blog is really just this, like random collection of experiences from the last 11 years, both in the classroom and also outside of it. And somehow that hit a chord with a lot of people. And it was not something that I set out to do. You know, it was not a diss intention of like man. I was a second. I was a third-year teacher when I started writing, and I did not think that I had the answers for anything, and I still don't have many answers, but I had a lot of questions. And I also had this hope that if I could change some things, maybe I could make the situation in front of me better. And my students were kind enough to share their voices with me and say, yeah, you go share this with other adults to, because it would be really nice if more people hurt at the new. And so I think that's it's just a super organic Journey that I've been on and continue to be on. Right. The learning never stops. And, and I think, especially in the last 19 months. Now more than ever, when we've just been told, we'll figure it out, or, you know, here's this new initiative. Can't you just make it work? I've tried to share all the dumb little things that I have done to try to make it bearable and manageable, but also been very vocal about like this is not sustainable, and it's not okay for us to feel like we're the ones failing here when there's so much more going on than just the decisions within our own classroom.

00:05:28 Molly Rauh
I love the that started as a reflective practice for you that you were just kind of reflecting on your work and writing about it. And, you know, I also think it's really neat that it was your husband who was like, write about it. You know, he recognized since what you needed when maybe you couldn't. So I think that's that's kind of a neat thing.

00:05:48 Pernille Ripp
And I think maybe he was just sick of hearing about it. You write like, because it's it's also like when you're in this vacuum together. Now that we were to teacher household, we also have to have like, we've really recognize some boundaries. And being like otherwise. It's all consuming. And I think he was at the point to where he was like this is all consuming for you. How can you get it out, step away? And then feel like you did something productive with all those thoughts? And so he knows me. Well, he knew that writing would be a good outlet for that.

00:06:16 Molly Rauh
And I think one of the beautiful things about that as starting this journey for yourself as a third-year teacher. I don't know to me, that's like the prime time. You still have lots of energy. You still, like you have questions about things. You have all these ideals that you haven't forgot, if that makes sense. Yeah, because I think I don't know about you, but as I go through my own teaching journey, sometimes you lose sight of like that, that ultimate goal of who you want to be. Because, like you said, those systems, they end up changing us. And sometimes you look around suddenly, and you're like, I don't want to be part of these systems anymore. And you said, like you said, they're part of traditions, and they get passed down. And I think we all slowly, over time, you know, become complicit complicit in some practices that we probably don't love.

00:07:13 Pernille Ripp
Absolutely. And I think they I think the system is set up to do that, that I think it's meant to wear as down the way that we are spoon fed this, you know, statement of, like, will do it for the kids. And the minute you raise your voice, well, then you're not in it for the right reasons. And what an incredibly toxic way of thinking. Like the reason I raise, my voice is for the kids, but it's also the create a profession that is sustainable for people, because it does not work if we're, if we are self sacrificing our health, our families, everything, our finances, just to fix a system that isn't working for kids, and then in Reverse being told, like, you must not have done enough. You know, when we look at burnout, it's like there's so many reasons. But of course, it's also like the burden that educational staff and the system is supposed to to carry is just too much. And so I think it's also, I think you're right with that, like I love being around new teachers because they're still hopeful. And then I look at myself, and I'm like, man, when did I become the jaded old teacher, right? Like when did I become that teacher? I was like, oh, here we go, another new idea, you know, like that voice in the staff meeting. But I get it now, And I get why people end up there. And so I think it's important to continue the dialogue with students to, because the students have been in our grade before. And so while I might be a eight year veteran of seventh grade by now, this is my students, one and only time in seventh grade, and they have hope and they want to change things. And so that's why I think it's so important for me to have those conversations with kids as well.

00:08:47 Molly Rauh
Okay. So, thinking of like going from that blogging piece to your first book, and and just to give you a little bit of heads up. So, you know, I like to poll some of my colleagues and friends in education before I do these interviews. And I would say, I there were there were two kinds of teachers. They either knew who you were, and there were like, oh, my gosh, that's so exciting. She's great, or they had no idea who you were. And so for the you know, I think on a literacy podcast, most of our listeners probably know who you are. But on the off chance that there are some who don't know much about you, I think like I want, I want you to go back to early as a professional writer. How did you go from the blog to a book? And then kind of quick summary of what your first book was about that our listeners can maybe go. Maybe I need to pick that up. Okay?

00:09:48 Pernille Ripp
Ya, no, how did that? So I was Brave. I saw a tweet. So I've been blogging for a couple of years, and people were responding, which was crazy, right? Like even the first blog post that I wrote somebody responded, and it wasn't my mom, you know, moms always like show up and dads. And it was like some stranger who had like, left a comment. And he was so crazy to me, and it continues to be to this day. And so after a couple of years, I was like, okay, this is kind of cool. And I sought sweet notes from the small press. And they were like, "Hey, we're looking for new education writers." And I was like, now, wouldn't that be something like, wouldn't that be a cool challenge to like, take all of this that I've been putting out in the world. And like, try to not make it a system like I didn't want to make a how to how to teach like Pernille kind of book. But just to be like, hey, here's my journey. And here are the ideas and man has that made a difference in my space at the time as a fourth and fifth grade teacher. And so I sent the idea, and they were like, yeah, yeah, we think there's something here. And so I wrote the first version of "Passionate Learners" for them. And then, you know, there were some things that didn't work out the way they did. And but they were. They were kind enough to connect me with Routledge to sell the book rights to them and so route, which then and they were like, this is awesome. Let's repackage this, but do want to update it. And by then I had moved to middle school. So I was like, yeah, because I looked at that book through that written by that Elementary version of Pernille that was all about like, let's break the system. And like, how do we give control back to students? And how do I question grading? And the homework? And like just constantly look at all the structures and the boxes that we place kids in and try to break those within a very conscripted conscripted system. You know, how do you work with in a school that tells you you have to do letter grades, but you don't want to, right like, what do you do that? How can you still Center the kids and still kind of play by some of the rules? And so I've read that book now is a middle school teacher. And I was like, oh, wait, here's the middle school extension of this work right now that I'm only responsible for 45 minutes of English times 5 that that wall breaking, has to look totally different, because it just wasn't such a different world. And so it was a really fantastic, great way to go back and revisit like what Pernille had written a couple of years earlier, what I had written a couple of years earlier and go kid. Now, how does this get adapted and modified? And so that was the second second edition of Passionate Learners, which sounds like really fancy, but it was really just because it was a purchase of that book. And so that book is really like, I don't know, my hopes and dreams for any classroom teachers of how do we give the control back to kids? How do we create opportunities for them to shape the learning, decide the learning assess themselves? And how do we put a microphone in front of their faces to say, what's not working for you? Do you feel respected? You know, why not? And what would, what would you like to do to facilitate change and be open to that, and then be able to help them create this change? And so that's where it all started. And then once that book came out, then all of a sudden it was, you know, just like these really serendipitous connections with other people that were like, Hey, we're, you know, could you want to write about, you know, you kind of talked about this and passionate Learners. You want to come over to Corwin and talk more about like, how can principals and empower their teachers like, what do you, what do you wish principals, knew and administration?" Which was a really interesting book to write, because it was like, I was not in a great principal situation at that time. So it was kind of like, what do I wish? We're my ideal situation, but it was also looking at, okay, what, what am I doing in my with my students to break down some of the hierarchy of power and how we share power? And how could that really be replicated within a district and the same thing? Then the global collaboration book happened. And then route, like a Routledge came back, and they were like, I was actually, I think I was under contract to write a book about student blogging, because I was super into student blogging. And as I started writing it, I was like, this is not. I was like, why am I writing this book? Like I don't think this is like chapter or like a PDF. And so I spoke to DonnaLynn Miller, who I know so many people know. And is a very dear friend of mine, I said, I have this idea for a writing or a reading book. And I was like, but I don't, I don't think, you know, like, who am I to write a reading book? And she was like, "No, we need as many people out there writing these books to say, look, DonnaLynn can do it in Texas, with, with her age groups. And Penny can do it up, you know, up in her, in her age groups. And then this random random teacher in Wisconsin can do it with her kids." And so it was the boost I needed to kind of go. Okay, I have I have a few ideas, and also to pay homage to the people who had come before me and said, I picked up their ideas. And here's what it looks like teaching day-to-day and 45 minutes of ela. And so that was passionate readers. And so for me, I think if I look at all four books that I've written and I'm currently writing up this, One what keeps coming back to me is, how do we center the child? And how do we make their voices heard? And how do we recognize that when a child shows up in our classroom, it's not just their academics that show up? It's their whole experience. It's the whole child, and if we don't make space for the emotions that they carryrwith them when it comes to Reading, writing or anything in school, and I don't just mean in a recognition like, oh, I see that you're having a hard day. But really we dive into into into these emotions with kids. Then they're going to have a much harder time actually making some real connections to the journey that they're on. And so that continues to be at the heart of my work and continues to be at the heart of my writing. So my hope for any of the books is really that any teacher at any grade level can pick it up and go, oh, I'm going to try this like I'm going to take these ideas, and I'm going to make him work within my system. But here's why she changed. And maybe I can't do it. I think she wants she did, but I can do some of that. And I think the biggest gift has just been when ducators have come up and said, you, you gave me the courage to go and try some of these things, because I write about the fear, you know, that came with making some of these changes, and also just like that one idea that you gave man, it just made the biggest difference like what a crazy honor that is. So yeah, the writing was not something I ever thought would be a part of my life. And now I can't imagine it not being a part of my life. That's usually how it goes, right?

00:16:41 Molly Rauh
Definitely. Well, and that's that's how I process to. So to me, that just makes sense, although I haven't blogged about it in a long time, but early on, like you, I used to blog about it. So trying to think of how you worded it, you said it was. It was really great wording. You had said something about, you know, even just that, they read things, and they might not be able to use all the things that you put in your book, but they might take just one thing. And that really made me think about, kind of honoring the you know. And you've talked a lot about different spaces and places like DonnaLynn's space and place. And you mentioned Penny Kittle. Yeah, I was gonna say, was it Penny? Ya you mentioned Penny, and like the space in place that she teaches in. And so thinking of that, you know, I really I just really appreciated that, because I don't know. Over the years I've felt that teaching is incredibly personal, right? So, like, you know, I have I have my way of being, and it's not going to be your way of being. And so sometimes the things that work for me in honoring kids might look a little different in then how you my honor kids. And, you know, I love that you're a seventh-grade teacher, because that was my previous life, and I miss my seventh graders

00:18:17 Pernille Ripp
Such an incredible age to be a part of right? And I think that that's also it like I think about. So I now teach in a glorious 86 minute block. So I only have three seventh grade classes. How vastly different they are. And even within my own system of doing things, looks very different depending on the kids in front of me and I, while I love that there are books and systems out there that are like day one day to, you know, do this, because I think it's such an incredible resource, especially when you're just starting out, and you're trying to figure out your own systems. But like, I really wanted to put a book out there that was like, you don't have to do this day by day. You can use this at different parts of the year. You can use this when it fits for this one class or, or just. Here's a question, you can ask yourself, when you're having one of those days, some things are not working, because that's what's been helpful for me, right? It's been more of those books that said, I see you. And here's some things that you can do to make YOU better. And in turn, your classroom is going to hopefully feel a change as well. And so that has always been my goal, never to write the 10 step version. You know, just to be like, try this. Reflect on this. Ask this, do this. Here's a sheet. Here's an idea. Here's a lesson. And those are my favorite PD books as well, the journeys that I get to go on, because otherwise I forget, you know, I can't sit with it book in my lap and read another person, step-by-step instructions when I'm there with the students. And so for me, it's important that there needs to be some sort of osmosis into my own system.

00:19:49 Molly Rauh
Well, and that brings me back to something you said earlier that I really appreciated too, because you talked about how you see how that those systems kind of make us jaded over time. And you know, a little bit of that idea of having some empathy for how teachers get to those spaces and going, okay, I love that. You said, you know, here's a question you can ask yourself. And, you know, I think that's something even in the world we live in today. I've seen some of my colleagues that were, you know, at one point in time, like people, I really admired and loved dearly. I've seen them kind of go down what I might consider a little bit of a dark path where maybe they've lost touch with who they are and what they leave as a teacher. And so I, like, I like that question framing too, because sometimes those questions can be questions that you ask your dear friends too, to help them reflect on where they're at. And it's that that comes from a space of, I think, a lot of empathy for just how hard it can be to continue this profession and stay true to that core of wanting to do our best for kids and wanting to honor them and keeping them centered. So given that, you know, that's something that you speak to that resonates with me personally. Could you give an example of a question that you ask yourself sometimes, or that you recommend teachers might ask themselves when maybe they're making choices that aren't student-centered or aren't ya internally. That experience? Yeah, I think, I mean, there's one question that I've used for years, and that's just what I want to be a student in my own classroom, right? Like wood Pernille, the 12 year old version of Pernille, as much as I can remember, would, would I have thrived in this environment that I've created a law inside my seventh graders? But also like thinking as a parent, right? I have four kids in myself. And would they be able to thrive within our environment and kind of keeping that as a gut check? Because there's always going to be days where I'm like, hmm, no. Today was probably really boring, right? And so then, knowing that when I'm planning, adding some more boring lessons, because sometimes they are just going to be boring right like it's not always going to be a production, then thinking about like, what's my attitude and delivering these lessons as far as like, how am I joking around? How am I giving them a chance to get up and move around? And, you know, how else can we provide joy? And so that's my other question, especially right now is how much? How much joy are we having? Are we getting a chance to just sit and laugh together? You know, it cannot like I was on Twitter the other night. And Julie G, who's just a fabulous educator that I admire so much. You know, she had said, I'm going to paraphrase it home awfully, but she had said, something like, you know, constantly asking kids to solve the world's problems is exhausting for them, and also, like, not healthy. And I think about that, especially like with an English right where we have so much like, let's burn down the system. And like lets36, let's really dig in all these deep dark issues. And how are we going to change the world, which is like, super amazing. And I have some kids who are like, yes, lets, you know. And they want to go out. And they want to do all the things. But right now, too, I think, like, we all just need some more joy. And that's not in any way pretending that the world isn't burning literally around us, but it's just going like, how can we refill our energy reserves so that we can go out and fight the rules and fight the system and continue all of the conversations that we're having that need to be have about the inequities? And all is the system make just obstacles that we have in place for so many people in our country. And so for me, one of the questions to is just like, how am I bringing joy in? How are we co-creating joy and not like in an artificial way, but just like, you know, today, one of my fantastic kids just loves playing computer games on his chrome book the entire time that I'm teaching. And so we just made it a game of like, how quickly could I shut him down? And he was laughing about it. It. And I was like, I was laughing about it too, because it was like the perseverance that was being put into trying to get the game loaded before I noticed it was really impressive, like that kid is going to go places, right? And I think it was important for me in that moment. It go like this is funny. This is this is not this kid, like trying to like, be super rude or anything like that, like he's being a kid who has an opportunity to do the snake game or whatever they have unblocked and whatever. And and that was what he needed to. He laid himself. And so, yeah, I think, I think right now, I think it's really important that we all come back to Joy a little bit, but also that idea of like, you know, would you want to be a student in your own classroom? And if you're not sure, go ask the kids, that's always what I when I go out and teach people. I'm like, what questions are you asking, kids? Well, how would they describe your class? And sometimes people get really defensive. And I get that, because it's really hard to be told that maybe your class is not the favorite class, or maybe they don't really like you that much. Or maybe that lesson plan that you have worked so hard on. And that you were so excited about is not what they're excited about. And I've had to really teach myself, and I wish I was better at it, but I pretend that I'm really thick skinned, and I'd pretend in the face of my students that I'm really thick skinned. And so I always tell him, like, you got to tell me, if you don't feel safe, I hope you are able to tell me, or if you don't feel respected for me, I will give you opportunities to tell me. But at any point also let me know. But also, if you're like, this is so boring, can we plan something better together? Because you also have to recognize that these are my best ideas. And so if something is really terrible, let's talk about it, and then I would love your input. And I think that that has helped me stay more grounded. And I think for a lot of teachers who maybe are feeling really burned out right now, maybe having some of those conversations with kids. But like, how can we make this better? What would make a difference? Like, even my students today I put on the board, they're kind of in different places because they're working through some things, and it was like, you know, get all your old work done. And then hey, finish this new project up. And then third one was like, when you're done, you can nap, or you can read. But you can work on other classes in the kids were like, we can nap Mrs. Ripp. I was like, yeah, you can nap, and they were like, oh, my gosh, I really want a nap. And so again, that from the kids to write. And so I just think that if we're feeling this burnout, if we're feeling this frazzled, if we're feeling the scatterbrained, that we can't even read books, and how are the kids feeling, and not because that their emotional state takes precedent over ours it, there needs to be some sort of like, you know, balance there. But like, if we're feeling this way, then how are the kids in our, in our care feeling? And so I feel like there's just opportunity to have a lot of conversations. I was a really long winded answer. I apologize.

00:27:06 Molly Rauh
No, that was a glorious, answerand it deserves every second that I got. Well, that made me think so, you know, I'm new at my school. And so being new, you know, you're feeling this inordinate amount of pressure to like, impress the boss and, like, you know, going from middle school to high school. I also felt this pressure for a high school level of rigor. And, you know, the reality was, I realized my kids aren't there yet. You know, it's a very different population than where I was before. They have a lot of spaces where I need to build some skills that they don't have that. You know, I took for granted, they might have as high school students. And so I had to take a step back and go, you're pushing these guys too much. And yes, you want to get there. And I'm still going to get, you know, do my darndest to get them there. And I've already seen them grow exponentially, because kids are amazing and resilient, and they can do fantastic things. But I also, you know, in that push, I was making my classroom, like you said, it was not a place where kids wanted to be. And really, it wasn't a place where I wanted to be right. And, you know, had this realization of that, because, you know, again, I like to be reflective and ask myself, myself those questions. And this was very impulsive. I'm a very impulsive person. You know, I asked, I started adding like a silly little question at the beginning of the day, in addition to whatever, you know, warm up sort of thinking tasks they had going on. And the other day I had put on there can you do a cartwheel? And, you know, we go around the room, and some of them are like, maybe, I don't know. I haven't tried in years, and some of them are like, I don't think so. And so impulsively. I was like, all right, in the middle of class today, we're going out, we're finding out if we can do cartwheels. All of us. I don't know either. I haven't tried in a while, might pull a muscle, and you guys can laugh. And so we literally like, you know, they were digging into a text, you know, working really hard. And so we took a break from that. We all piled outside, there were a bunch of people in the courtyard. So they were like, oh, we can't do this here, people will see us. So I found a little spot out of the way they could have a little privacy. And we just like, started doing cartwheels. And pretty soon they're cheering each other on, like, try it. You can do this, and they're like pausing and like teaching somebody how to do a cartwheel. And there was just amazing bond building between the class. And, you know, I didn't plan that. But oh, we needed it so much. And it was this huge aha for me, like, I need to do some silly things with my kids, more. Like my freshman, by the end of the day, they're so fried there. They're not there, you know. And I was getting really frustrated with them, because they're just not able to be students. You know, they've got these block like our classes are like an hour and a half long, right? And so, you know, those 90 minute classes that's a lot for some of those kids. And so by the time they get to their fourth hour and a half class, yeah, they've got nothing left and just going out and doing something silly. Or like the other day for our break. We didn't even go outside as we just needed something really quick we do could do. They had a little arm wrestle battle. You know, not everybody had to do it. But if they wanted to, they could. And we had brackets. And, you know, we found our classroom arm wrestling champion champion and just some of that physicality too. I think they needed so much. And so I was really grateful that I just had a crazy impulse to honor all the other parts of their being, or at least you know, the being silly and being a kid piece. Because man, they've been able to come back and still dig into text, and, you know, and probably do better than if I'd said, no, we need every minute of this time like.

00:31:09 Pernille Ripp
And I've had to remind myself that to like, slow down down, because we're getting this artificial press right of like learning loss and get them caught up. And like, poor we behind, first of all, like, who is this fictitious person that we're all running after. So I'd like to have a conversation with him. But it's also just like, slow down and have the conversation, you know, and, and, and do the small group challenges and do the physicality. And it's okay that work time today was only 15 minutes, because we were switching between things will come back to it tomorrow. And so I keep laying these grand plans for how quickly we're going to get through units. But what I keep marveling over at the slower pace that we're going is so many more kids are finding success. So many more kids are starting to like open up to each other. So many more kids are laughing. I have this rule in my classroom. You can't say, shut up, I just find it really disrespectful. And they know, like when I say they're like, I say, language and they know. And now like they're all saying it to each other, right? Like language, Mrs. Ripp, Mrs. Ripp says, language. And I just like it's those little things that become the spoken language of our community, right? That weaves us together. And I think that, you know, not now more than ever, but now more than ever, we need to recognize that. And I think now more than ever, we also have the ability to say, no, like, no, I'm going to put up a barrier to my classroom, and I'm going to trust my instinct, and I'm going to try to tap into these kids in front of me and try to build community, because that's what you told me to do. And I'm going to continue to do that all year so that we can take academic risks so that we can read together, right? I don't think I've handed out so many snacks in my life, and then had to like, put kids into separate spaces. So there's six feet and hand sanitizer. But I'm like, if it takes me going to Aldi, buying more granola bars or going down my principal of me, and like, I need snack, because I'd really like not to fund it myself, you know, so that these kids can learn learn and like, have a moment. Then I'm going to buy the granola bars right? Like. And again, I'd prefer not to buy myself, because I think we do that enough. But I think what you speak to their cartwheels or arm wrestling like, yeah, like, how are we keeping them in a space to learn to also where they feel safe? I mean, think about how many kids didn't speak last year if they were virtual, and they learned that to be in the shadows was a perfectly fine place to be. And now we're asking to come right back out in the sunlight, you know. And so, like, how are we handling that with kids in a true way? And not in this artificially constructed? Well, we're in school, so you better just do what I tell you to do kind of way. So if it takes granola bars or cartwheels, or whatever it is, then that's what it's going to take, right?

00:34:05 Molly Rauh
And and yeah, yeah, this I agree, this snacks help tons to I have definitely gotten more snacks than I ever have before. And you talked about that like hiding in the shadows when they were remote. And I've seen that with my students, they don't know how to talk to each other anymore. It is that much harder to get them to feel brave enough to put an idea out to into the universe. And that was, as we were doing cartwheels. It evolved into this, like be bold challenge like be bold just try it like, you know, we're going to cheer you on whether it's the worst cartwheel we've ever seen, or were completely amazed. And we did like, they started cheering each other on. They started encouraging each other to try. And that, I think, has gone back into our academic moments where, you know, a kid, and I like my favorite response when a kid shares an answer. And even as I you know, maybe clarify misconceptions, you know, I'm always like, oh, I love The Bravery of that answer. Like, I love to tell them, they're Brave when they answer things, and they share ideas. And so the you know, that's part of my language that I hope passes on to my students, but that, that cartwheel the culture of the cheering each other on. I think that has come back into the academic space since last Friday, when I did that, well, we've had a ton of your time already. And so, and and poor Jessica, I dominated this conversation.

00:35:35 Pernille Ripp
Oh ya, hi Jessica!

00:35:37 Jessica Rickert
You guys are good. You're talking secondary. It's all good.

00:35:44 Molly Rauh
So Pernille. I know you said that as you're writing, your books are thinking about things you've learned from other places is there? Do you have an educational hero or a mentor? Somebody you've learned from that, you know, you kind of keep with you. So, you know, who's your hero?

00:36:00 Pernille Ripp
Who's my hero? I mean, I could I could give you a list of incredible adults that are still doing the work. But honestly, it's the kids like it keeps coming back to the kids. The kids that find their voice, the kids that speak up against me, the kids that on my survey, you know, have the bravery to tell me that no what I'm doing does not work, or that they don't feel respected by me like they are always going to be my educational heroes. The kids who I know what's going on outside of school, because they have, they have confided in me, and yet they still show up, and they try, or even the kids were. Life is amazing, and they come in, and they like want to be there. And they want I want to connect, and they're trying to reach out to you and all of their amazing ways. You know, that to me like that's The Bravery. Those are the kids that I'm, that those are the people that I look up to, because, like, if I can be smart enough and be good enough to be deserving of being in the in the presence of my seventh graders, then it's been a good day. And I feel that way with my own kids to like, I look at some of the ways that my kids, who are also vastly different look at the world, and I'm just in awe and I, I want to get closer to that right? Like I want to get out of this jaded adult shell, where we listen too much to the news and and were dominated by this Doom and Gloom and go out and say, well, why not? And why not me? No, why not change? And who can I bring along on this journey? And who's already on this journey that I can learn from? So I would say, the kids, you know, when in doubt, go ask some questions. We have the best. Like I say, there's always that we have the best professional development sitting right in our classroom. And so so we need to tap into that.

00:37:48 Molly Rauh
I love that number. One resource. Our students.

00:37:53 Jessica Rickert
And that's the best take away. And I did enjoy listening too. I just love hearing educators talk, and you guys both in the classroom talking about kids. And it's an interesting take on how covid is affected kids. But I love how you talked about bringing that Joy back in and both of your experiences and examples of having a little bit of fun because they do think we get mired down on. We've got to do this. And this and this and definitely getting out of the adult world and getting into the kid world is so much better for everyone. We all need to turn off the news and talk to kids more. So I love that aspect of it too. And so make sure for all of our listeners that you go to sign up right now. It's ccir aorg, because per meal will be presenting at our 20:22 conference. And you can even get more insights and wisdom too. So thanks so much for joining us tonight. Pernille.

00:38:49 Jessica Rickert
Thank you for inviting me. I appreciate it.

00:38:52 Molly Rauh
Thanks for listening to CCIRAliteracy conversations podcast to find out more about ccir a go to ccir aorg on ccir aorg. You can join as a member, or find great resources like our professional development blog, which posts every Tuesday and has a variety of guest writers on an awesome selection of topics. CCCIRA is a Professional Organization, Educators and community members dedicated to the promotion and advancement of literacy. We also have a Twitter account at Colorado reading. You can find us on Instagram at CCIRA_ColoradoReading . Or you can find us on Facebook, where we also have a members only group that we're trying to build. And our Facebook account is CCIRA Colorado Reading. We'd love to hear more from you. And again, if you're looking for new content, please send any questions or things you'd be interested in seeing from ccir a to ccir a video at gmailcom. Thanks for listening and have a great week.