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We live in a world where our civilization and daily lives depend upon institutions, infrastructure, and technological substrates that are _complicated_ but not _unknowable_. Join Patrick McKenzie (patio11) as he discusses how decisions, technology, culture, and incentives shape our finance, technology, government, and more, with the people who built (and build) those Complex Systems.
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Bee in Cyber

Rosie Anderson Bee in Cyber

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The Bee in Cyber Podcast is a brand new UK cyber careers podcast, focussed on the people who work within cyber security. The podcast will interview and showcase the diverse individuals who work in cyber security, their career journeys, and showcase all sides of the cyber hive. This podcast is not just for people who want to be in cyber, it is for all of the worker bees, who are 2 years plus into their career, and now thinking what is next for me? How do I get to where I want to be? We want t ...
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Start Grow & Scale The Real Estate Portfolio of Your Dreams. Could you use a guide, a coach, a mentor, who has walked the path before you to help you create your freedom? Then the Russell Westcott Podcast is what you are looking for. Russell has built a multi-million dollar portfolio from scratch, without using his own money, and today he’s dedicated his life to sharing his knowledge with you. Subscribe now to get brand new inspiring episodes weekly, featuring some of the biggest names in th ...
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In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Dave Kasten, to discuss their experiences building VaccinateCA, a charitable effort that collected, collated, and distributed vaccine distribution information during the COVID-19 pandemic. (If you Googled for the vaccine, the search results likely came from VaccinateCA’s data.) They cover the…
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In this episode of Complex System, the tables are turned and media entrepreneur/investor Erik Torenberg interviews Patrick McKenzie (patio11) about the intricacies of the financial system, focusing on banking, money laundering, and regulatory compliance. They discuss several of Patrick’s essays from Bits About Money. Patrick discusses the three sta…
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Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Austin Vernon, a petroleum engineer, to discuss the technology and economics of fracking. Austin explains the evolution of drilling technology, the financial ecosystem supporting the oil industry – including the unique "doctor and lawyer money" funding model – and the complex interplay of mineral rights laws …
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In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Dan Davies, author of Lying for Money, and The Unaccountability Machine. They discuss how cybernetics–the study of control and communication in complex systems–applies to modern organizations and decision-making. Dan and Patrick discuss how organizations change as they grow, financial fraud a…
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In episodes 121 and #5 of the Watch the Femmes series, we welcome Kasia Niewadoma on to the TPR Podcast. Kasia and I discussed how she deals with internal pressures, especially after experiencing numerous near misses and podium finishes in recent years. We explored the changes Kasia made in her training that led to her successful 2024 season, culmi…
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In episode 120 and #4 of the Watch the Femmes series, we welcome back one of our OG guests and climbing stars, Sarah Gigante. Sarah has settled into the European peloton this season after her stellar Tour Down Under campaign and is currently riding the Tour de France Femmes avec Zwift. In this episode, Sarah and I catch up to discuss her preparatio…
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In episode 119 & #3 of the Watch the Femmes series, we catch up with Neve Bradbury from Canyon Sram. Neve is currently at the Tour de France Femmes after achieving a stellar 3rd place on GC in the Giro D’Italia, along with a huge stage win on the queen stage. We discussed the target stages for the TDFF, including some intense reconnaissance session…
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Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Casey Handmer, rocket scientist turned CEO of Terraform Industries. Casey discusses the rapid advancements in solar power, the bureaucratic challenges of NASA, the incomprehensible success of SpaceX, and the evolving energy landscape. Casey touches on his experiences at JPL revealing how the organization’s fe…
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In episode 118 and #2 of our Watch The Femmes series, we catch up with Ashleigh Moolman-Pasio from AG-Insurance Soudal. Ashleigh is one of the best climbers in the peloton and a legend of the sport. In this episode, we discuss the origins of the Tour de France Femmes and how COVID-19 and Zwift played a huge part in making it happen. We discuss the …
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In episode 117 & #1 in our Watch The Femmes series, we catch up with Ruby Roseman-Gannon, the leader of Liv Alula Jayco for this year's Tour de France Femmes. Ruby and I start by discussing the Olympics' importance in road cycling and how it compares to the Tour de France Femmes. We then chat about the first few stages in Rotterdam and how they may…
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In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Zvi Mowshowitz (TheZvi) to discuss his wide-ranging career as a professional Magic: The Gathering player, sports gambler, equities trader, public intellectual on the covid-19 epidemic, and AI-focused journalist. They go into depth on how trading happens in less formal markets with lessons tha…
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In episode 116, I catch up with the multi-talented Dutch star, Puck Moonen. Puck and I discuss all of her favourite things, such as Formula 1, Moto GP, bike racing, training, and more. We also have a bit of fun chatting about the crazy experiences Puck has had throughout her promotional work and the downright weird ones too. We hear about the most …
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In episode 115, I catch up with Paul Collins, the head of performance excellence for AusCycling. Paul and I discuss the Australian Team Pursuit campaign ahead of the track events at the Olympics in Paris this week. We talk about the lessons learned since Tokyo, plans for Australia's "upgrade package" and the developments in track cycling across all…
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In this episode, Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Stephen Grugett, a co-founder of Manifold, to discuss prediction markets. They cover how prediction markets work, their efficiency in aggregating information, and why they serve as a minority report against prevailing narratives. They cover past controversies, potential risks, and the philoso…
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In episode 114, I catch up with besties Alex Manly and Georgia Baker ahead of their Paris Olympics campaign on the track for Australia. We discuss the interesting things about the Olympic games such as the rooms, kits and strange items the athletes receive. Alex and Georgia explain the preparation for the games that the Teams Pursuit squad have bee…
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Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Kelsey Piper, a journalist for Vox’s Future Perfect. Kelsey recently reported on equity irregularities at OpenAI in May of 2024, leading to an improvement of their policies in this area. We discuss the social function of equity in the technology industry, why the tech industry and reporters have had a frosty …
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In episode 113, I catch up with former professional turned director sportiv (DS) Jess Allen. Jess and I discuss her transition from road captain to DS and everything she has learned so far as we head towards the biggest women’s race of the year, the Tour de France Avec Zwift. Thanks to our sponsors who support the production of the TPR Cycling Podc…
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Patrick McKenzie (patio11) is joined by Byrne Hobart to discuss Byrne’s vantage point as writer of The Diff, a tech and finance newsletter. Byrne explains the toxicity of the 30-year mortgage, the dynamics of the finance newsletter ecosystem, how rationalist epistemics can be applied to hedge funds, and the joy of learning about an industry from sc…
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In episode 112, I chat with the absolute A1 huma, Kim Cadzow. In just her second year on the WWT, Kim has already amassed amazing results, such as 6th in LBL, 10th on GC at the Vuelta, and 8th on GC at Suisse. Not only is Kim Cadzow a huge talent, but she is also an awesome chat! Kim and I discussed EF’s new co-sponsor, Oatly, and what it’s like to…
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Patrick McKenzie (patio11) and Ricki Heicklen discuss Ricki’s innovative approaches to teaching trading. Trading is traditionally taught only by practitioners, to practitioners. The curricula that trading firms use are not published externally, to avoid empowering competitors. Ricki explains how she teaches trade mechanics, how markets and traders …
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In episode 111, we chat to Antonia Niedermaier, the young climbing sensation from Canyon-Sram. Antonia burst on to the scene this time last year, winning a mountain stage at the Giro at just 20 years of age before winning the U/23 ITT World Title. We learn more about Antonia’s road to the World Tour, her hometown and hobbies, and how ski-mountainee…
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Episode 110 brings us a unique discovery in the world of women’s cycling. Kim (Le Court) Pienaar. Kim, a rider racing for AG Insurance Soudal, is a true hidden gem from Mauritius. In this episode, we delve into the fascinating journey of Kim, from her triumph at the Cape Epic to her renaissance in professional road cycling with AG. Her instant succ…
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In episode 109, I catch up with Arvid de Kleijn, the Dutch sprinter from Tudor Pro Cycling. In the last two years, Arvid has forged himself as one of the top sprinters in the World Tour. We discuss his unconventional journey to the top flight. Arvid explains what makes the likes of Milan, Philipsen, and Merlier a cut above the rest and how importan…
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In episode 108, I catch up with Australia’s track and road star, Kell O‘Brien, from Jayco-AlUla. Kell and I discuss his 2024 classics season and chat about his focus for the Olympics this year in Paris. We also talked about the Giro and the current weather concerns the riders are facing. What is it like to have to ride or race in those icy conditio…
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In episode 107, I catch up with the loveable sprinter Jensen Plowright from Alpecin–Deceuninck. We catch up after a long time between drinks, and the result is very entertaining. We discuss the Giro and whether Caleb Ewan will get back to the top step this month, and Jensen explains the stresses of hectic sprint stages. We chat a bit about tech and…
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In episode 106, I catch up with Jai Hindley, the winner of the 2022 Giro d’Italia. He is also known as the Prince of Perth. Jai and I catch up on what has been happening in his life this year, including his new contract extension with Bora-Hansgrohe. We discuss the major factors Jai considered during the negotiations and the importance of being abl…
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In episode 105, I catch up with Giro stage winner, SBS commentator and my good mate Dave McKenzie to discuss some hot topics ahead of this year’s Giro d’Italia. Macca and I discuss the “dominance vs. entertainment” theme referring to Pogacar’s likely sweep of the Giro GC and speculate about Sam Welsford’s surprising exclusion from the Bora Hansgroh…
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In episode 104, I catch up with the man behind Mark Cavendish’s comeback to success, his coach, Vasilis Anastapolous, AKA “Vasi”. In Cavendish’s own words, Vasilis was the catalyst for Mark Cavendish’s return to success when they were introduced to each other at the beginning of 2021. Vasi and I discuss his training philosophy and what it is like t…
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Dave and I discussed his career, from working in IT in clean rooms, to working at an MSSP, to spending tax payers money within critical national infrastructure. Dave is now a third of Damn Good Security, a start-up aimed at the SME businesses. We talked about the importance of ethics and building trust, to community events, to supporting critical s…
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We interviewed the fabulous Jules who talked to us about Threat Intelligence - what it is, what it isn't and the do's and don'ts about this type of career. Jules began her career on a service desk, and kept on wanting to learn more and more, and found herself in Threat Intel. This was a fascinating episode and a really inspiring discussion - with l…
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In episode 103, I chat with the smiling Colombian Esteban Chaves. Esteban shot to fame in 2014 as a likeable and endearing character while riding for Greenedge Cycling. He has podiumed the Giro d’italia and the Vuelta Espana, winning numerous grand tour stages and a monument at Il Lombardia. In this episode, Esteban and I discuss the traditional de…
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In episode 102, we chat with Anya Louw from AG Insurance - Soudal. The 23-year-old Tasmanian quickly rose to the Women’s World Tour in 2022 and has established herself as a real captain within the team despite admittedly still learning the ropes herself. Anya and I chatted about her adaption to the European professional lifestyle, what aspects she …
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In episode 101, I catch up with Valtteri Bottas & Tiffany Cromwell, the cycling and Formula One power couple. Valtteri, Tiff and I chat about their upcoming gravel race in Finland, Fnld GRVL, which is a part of the GRVL series, including RADL (AUS) and SBT GRVL (US). We chat about how they discovered gravel cycling and how it plays a role in improv…
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In episode 100, I caught up with the greatest Men’s mountain biker of all time, Nino Schurter. Nino is a 10 (!!) time World Champion in the cross-country discipline and an Olympic gold medalist. At 37 years old, Nino is still a force in the sport, and the likes of Tom Pidcock and Mathieu van der Poel are trying to dethrone him in the MTB world. In …
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This was a great interview with Tash Norris, currently the CISO at Zopa Bank. We talked about her route into the industry, from working at the Apple Store, to working at Capital One. Tash discussed how she became Security Manager at Moonpig, and how she built on her skills by sitting in on interviews. Tash also shared some great advice about compar…
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In episode 99, I catch up with Australia’s greatest-ever general classification rider, 2011 Tour de France winner and World Champion, Cadel Evans. Cadel begins by explaining the origins of the Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race and explains the difficulties of putting on a bike race in 2024. We then turn our attention to which riders in the modern-d…
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In episode 98, I catch up with Fabian Cancellara, the owner of Tudor Pro Cycling, the new Suisse team on a rapid rise towards the World Tour. Fabian explains how the team came to be and its organisational values. We discuss the challenges of creating a new team and managing sponsor expectations. Fabian and I close the episode by discussing the riva…
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We interviewed the AppSec expert Gerald Benischke about whatDevSecops is, and what it isn't, his path from software engineering into cyber security, and the interesting roles he has worked on, including the Furlough scheme during Covid. We also discussed contracting vs permanent roles, the benefits of both, as well as his thoughts on the industry. …
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In episode 97, I catch up with one of the most fascinating cyclists in the modern peloton, Matej Mohorič. Matej is well-known for his impressive record of wins and his fearless riding style, but also for his eloquent and candid interviews that he consistently delivers. In our conversation, we discussed the classics, what it takes to win, and the ch…
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In episode 96, I catch up with the man of the summer, Laurence Pithie. Laurence and I discussed the recent NZ national championships, his huge victory at Cadel Evans GORR, and what was going through his mind during that hectic sprint finish. We dive into his favourite sponsor items (it will surprise you) and chat about living in Europe, running in …
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In episode 95, I chat with one of the authorities of sprinting at the top level, Greg Henderson. Greg has raced 17 grand tours and 5 Olympic games and worked closely with Andre Greipel, Mark Cavendish and other world-class sprinters. He is known for his race IQ and now operates as a director sportif in his post-racing career. Greg and I sat down to…
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In episode 94, I chat with Australian champion Ruby Roseman-Gannon. Ruby and I discussed how she plans to step up in the classics in 2024 as she enters her 4th season as a pro. Ruby explains why the gym is important for her training and details what she wants to work on for this season to take that next step in her career. Finally, we finish with s…
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We had a fantastic chat with Keith Price, and covered a lot in the 40 minute chat. From transitioning from the military, working in the US and the UK, to working with DarkMatter overseas and finding the right working environment. We talked about the benefits of working within and hiring diverse teams, the importance of being an ally and speaking up…
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In episode 93, I chat with Finn Fisher-Black from Team UAE. Finn and I catch up at the Tour Down Under and chat about his fantastic 2023 season after recovering from a horrific leg injury in his neo-pro season. We discuss the upcoming Olympics, time trialling and New Zealand’s finest chocolates. Head to www.procyclingkitsales.com to check out the r…
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You have a grand vision, inspiring dreams, and an endless supply of hunger & ambition. But you’ve probably realized that starting, growing, and scaling a Real Estate portfolio isn’t as easy as you’d like it to be, or how it appears on HGTV. You may be feeling stuck, frustrated, and not sure what to do next. The biggest thing stopping Real Estate in…
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In episode 92, I chat with New Zealand RR champion and stage 1 winner of the Tour Down Under, Ally Wollaston. Sitting down at the Hilton, Adelaide, we chat about her recent successful start to 2024 at the TDU, personally and for her AG Insurance-Soudal team. There is also some chat about Oakleys, chocolate, coffee and moon landings (allegedly). Fin…
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How To Win Real Life Monopoly featuring Investor Chris Smith Don't know if I should share this, in case I ever find myself playing Monopoly with you. I like to win, after all… Oh heck, why not? I want you to win too. It all comes down to math and fundamentals… No special or magical cards In Monopoly, as in real-life Investing, you need to follow so…
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