Tony Chappel , the CEO of the NSW EPA, is our guest today, so we are definitely back with a bang after the summer holidays. Gunnar and James are (surprisingly!) well-prepared and keep the conversation on track as they dive into Tony’s journey to leading the EPA, his early priorities, the role of politics in environmental regulation, and the importance of deep listening in leadership. They explore everything from the OCSE paper and the EPA's potential collaboration with industry bodies, to the tricky disconnect between waste and contaminated sites, the zero-tolerance stance on asbestos in waste, updates to the ASC NEPM, and the growing pressures on landfill capacity. And yes, Gunnar did try for a get-out-of-jail-free card from Tony… but no luck this time (nice try, though)! Three experts, one great conversation, and a rare look into the leadership and direction of the NSW EPA. This is definitely one episode you won’t want to miss. Links mentioned: NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS Draft ASS Order and Exemption Recorded on 19 August 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Electric Vehicles are basically half price in Australia right now, thanks to some little-known government incentives. Gunnar and James decided it was the perfect time to talk… tax. Yes, tax. And you thought resource recovery was a boring subject, right? But before you judge, listen to this episodes. Gunnar and James have brought in the big guns: chartered accountant Paul Mills (paulybmills at gmail.com). It really sounds like the beginning of a bad joke: Two engineers and an accountant meet for a podcast ... Somehow yet again they pull it off, though. This episode is full of genuinely valuable info. Paul explains what Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) actually is, who pays it, and whether your lease company or car dealers are lying to you with their 'tax advice' (spoiler: probably). They also unpack the confusing mess that is the difference between a car loan, a lease, and a novated lease. And most importantly: The kicker is that EVs (full EVs, not wannabe EV hybrids) are FBT exempt in Australia. If you do it right, that knocks off around 50% off the prices of buying an EV. How? You gotta listen to find out. But remember: While Paul is brilliant, this podcast is still mainly about contaminated sites and resource recovery (some call it dirt and rubbish). So don’t go making financial decisions based on what you heard here without getting your own advice. Recorded on 11 June 2025 (just before EOFY!) Link to the EPA announcement regarding NEMP 3 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Gunnar claims almost all duplicates we take serve close to no purpose. If you want to know why, have a listen and be entertained and informed at the same time. The OGs are back together in this episode, and quite an unusual one it is. This times it is James who goes on a few rants, quite to Gunnar's amusement. Of course, Gunnar has a few things to say as well and he will definitively ruffle some feathers with this episode. We start off with playing Wikileaks by talking about a letter the EPA sent to all auditors regarding the staged introduction of V3 of the PFAS National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) and also a clarification regarding PFAS and the Duty to Report. (Plug to our previous Episode #25 The Duty to Report ). Then Gunnar and James hash out some ideas on duplicates, high RPDs, re-running of samples, basic statistics, experimental setups in science and why being 'conservative' might not be delivering the results you think it is. Episodes we talk about: #29 The OCSE Odyssey with Linda Apthorpe #25 The Duty to Report with Elizabeth Wild . #11 The Sampling Evolution with Ross McFarland Links: EPA regulatory updates Deana Crumbling Security Theatre - Wikipedia This episode was recorded on 17 May 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Attention Asbestos in Soils Specialists, there is a new kid in town. The Australian Standard 4964-2004 Method for the qualitative identification of asbestos in bulk samples has been superseded with a new AS 5370. What's different? What's better, what's worse? Why are we reporting below the detection and below the reporting limit? Is NATA on board with it? What do all those different sub-categories the laboratories report actually mean? Gunnar is talking to Linda Apthorpe, a Certified Occupational Hygienist and Fellow of the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists (AIOH). Linda is Associate Principal Occupational Hygienist at Hibbs in Sydney, a Lecturer at the University of Wollongong, author of multiple scientific papers and speaker at a variety of professional development seminars. There are very few who are better suited to talk about this subject, especially since Linda was also on the panel of people who developed the new Standard . James was unfortunately not there to keep Gunnar in check, and you guessed it, that resulted in not one, not two, but at least three (in)famous Gu-Rants in this episode. Some would say that alone makes this episode compulsory listening for anybody in the industry. Episodes mentioned: #2 The Mulchgate #11 The Sampling Evolution #28 The OCSE Odyssey The episode was recorded on 11 April 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

The Office of Chief Scientist and Engineer (OCSE) has issued recommendations concerning asbestos in waste and soil. Sarah Mansfield , Special Counsel (and environmental law superstar) at Norton Rose Fulbright , breaks down the key points and their legal implications. Given the focus on the PoEO Act and its handling of asbestos, you'd expect at least one of our hosts to go off the rails with a classic, epic rant. But, against all odds, age, wisdom, and a dash of professionalism took the reins—so much so that this episode doesn’t even come close to earning the 'explicit' rating it sometimes gets on various platforms. Gunnar's composure alone is a highlight (though he admits to biting his tongue to the point of unhealthiness!). Add to that the invaluable insights from James and Sarah, and you've got an episode well worth your time. We loved making it as always, and we hope you enjoy every moment. Leave a review or drop us a message. We thrive on connecting with our listeners! Upcoming ALGA event 1 May 2025. Sara is one of the presenters: Sydney Branch Event - OCSE Report: Management of Asbestos in Recovered Fines and Recovered Materials for Beneficial Reuse in NSW | ALGA This episode was recorded on 25 March 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Rod Harwood - do we need to say anything else? There are few who have had more influence on our industry and who have contributed more than Rod. Gunnar had a chat with Rod and while they reminisce about 'the good old days', Rod sprinkles in some anecdotes of his impressive career and shares gems of his incredible knowledge as an engineer and a business man. James was unfortunately unavailable (you know, work and stuff ...), but we promise, this is one everybody in our industry will enjoy. BTS Episode mentioned: The Duty to Report The episode was recorded on 7 March 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Gunnar and James take a dive into all sorts of events that have happened in the past few weeks. 1 - The EIANZ announces the punishment of a member. 2 - A $30,000 fine issued by a Council 3 - MASSIVE NEWS: The Office of the Chief Scientist and Engineer has released a recommendation to the NSW Government regarding the "Management of asbestos in recovered fines and recovered materials ...". Gunnar and James present the key points and almost find reasons to celebrate. We start off with an answer to the question, why there are so many Ampol and Caltex service stations on the contaminated land register. Gunnar's long time friend Simon Caples knows exactly why and he provides a rather amusing and amazing explanation. Flashback to the last episode ' The Duty to Report '. Other BTS Episodes mentioned: #14 The Honest Truth - Re the EIANZ Code of Ethics #8 The Power Grab - Re the new fines in the PoEO Act #9 The Amazing Pierina - Re asbestos in soil assessments This episode was recorded on 25 February 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

The Duty To Report may seem like a peculiar law in our industry, yet it's just another one of the many quirky regulations that shape our environmental consulting world. As such, it was begging to be turned into a podcast episode. In fact, Gunnar and James are even joking about selling movie rights to this one—so send your offers quickly! In this episode, Gunnar and James sit down with Elizabeth Wild , a distinguished Partner at Jones Day , to unpack the nuances of this obligation. They delve into the specifics of who is required to report, what must be reported, and under what circumstances. They also discuss the pros and cons of playing it safe when you're in the grey zone. Plus, if you've ever wondered what it’s like to stay in the Ice Hotel in Sweden (yes, a hotel made entirely out of ice), Elizabeth offers a perspective that goes beyond the picture-perfect scenes on Instagram. Who knew our podcast would also serve as a travel review platform? – Enjoy! The episode was recorded on 24 January 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Daniel James is someone worth knowing when you are working in our industry. Is he a contaminated sites or resource recovery leader like many of our other guests? No, but he will put you in touch with such experts if you are looking to employ one. His decade long experience as a specialised environmental recruiter gives him a unique insight into the workings behind the scenes of our industry. He shares his experience, talks about how he sees our industry performing in 2025, and also gives tips on how to make your next step in your career. Whether you are about to graduate or you are a seasoned environmental Principal, you should not miss this episode. Recording date: 22 November 2024 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Acid Sulfate Soils are a tricky subject. The second episode of our "The Basics" series is all about the ASS (oh this acronym is just endlessly amusing, isn't it?). Gunnar and James' guest is Laurie Fox , one of the most recognised and distinguished ASS experts not only in Australia, but globally. Aside from doing fantastic assessment and ASS management work on mind bogglingly big projects himself, Laurie is also committed to improving our industry's understanding of these soils. This improvement pathway he is on involves not only industry talks like this one, but also a tireless commitment to liaison with and education of various regulators. People like Laurie are a rare breed, one that is vitally important to have in our industry. It is people like him who improve all of us. This episode was recorded on 29 November 2024. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Everything you always wanted to know about planning, but were afraid to ask. If you don't get that movie reference, don't worry, it just means you are much younger than Gunnar, that's all. We are starting a new series called The Basics and we are kicking it off with town planning as the subject. Henry Burnett of DFP Planning is our expert guest. Henry and James go back many years and aside from discussing what town planning is all about, they relive their common past as sales clerks at an outdoor and camping chain. Gunnar sits mostly on the sidelines and only briefly shows up now and then, all the more reasons to listen in. Enjoy becoming a planning expert. Recorded on 22 Nov 2024. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Can eco-friendly plates and food containers made from sugarcane mulch sneak in some hidden PFAS? And can that PFAS end up in your compost, and eventually your garden soil? Cara Roberts and David Springer did the dirty work (literally) to find out. Gunnar and James couldn't wait for them to come onto the podcast and present the scoop. Tune in to hear what they uncovered! Oh, and this time there's no "Gunnar's gone rogue" segment. In fact, he's eating a slice of humble pie after a listener fact-checked him on one of his recent rants. Oops! After that little reality check, they tidy up a few loose ends and jump straight into the interview. Don't miss it! This episode was recorded on 4 November 2024. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

Grey Areas and Loopholes – Where to Draw the Line? This episode dives into the murky waters of our industry's "grey areas", or, if we are re being honest, loopholes . From VENM (Virgin Excavated Natural Material) issues to Council demands for auditors in a gotcha move, to James's creative methods for getting trial waste recycling facilities approved, and even the use of silica gel to clean up tank pit samples - these are some of the fine lines or thin ice areas we navigate in the environmental consulting world. Before Gunnar and James unpack their take on which loopholes are fair game and which ones in their opinion cross the line, they handle some podcast housekeeping, read out a listener comment, and share big news: the NSW EPA has withdrawn their 2022 asbestos position paper! And, because no episode is complete without a "Gunnar moment," he takes us back to a memorable prenatal class incident. In typical Gunnar style, he set things straight, though, admittedly, even he now wonders whether going full Gunnarish was, well, entirely necessary. Enjoy the episode! This is the link to the EPA article announcing the asbestos news. The episode was recorded on 18 October 2024 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

In a fictitious world where electricity reigns supreme, Gunnar has "invented" a revolutionary engine that uses ... wait for it ... petrol! That’s right, in this universe, electric engines are the norm, and Gunnar is pitching this wild idea of a new type of engine to a venture capitalist, skilfully played by James. We’re taking a detour from our usual lineup of site contamination, waste streams, asbestos scares, and blood lead levels. Instead, Gunnar and James are stepping into the world of dramatic fiction, or at least, are attempting to. They’re acting out a "screenplay," minus the screens, with Gunnar taking full responsibility for the writing (and any questionable humour). It’s all in good fun, so let’s embrace the satire and enjoy the ride! Gunnar and James certainly had a blast recording it! But before the “acting” begins, the two go on a trip down memory lane with a skydiving tale straight out of Top Gun. Depending on who you ask, it was either hilariously entertaining or a borderline disaster that nearly took out everyone nearby. You decide, either way, it’s unforgettable. Recorded on 18 October 2024, this episode is one for the books! Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…

A re-think of the classic Preliminary Site Assessment => Detailed Site Assessment => Remedial Action Plan scenario. Guest Andrew Kohlrusch, EPA Auditor and contaminated sites expert extraordinaire, joins Gunnar on an excursion to explore a more bespoke way to assess contaminated sites from the initial stages to the final remediation report. Of course the two veer off into their private lives first and discuss a Billy Joel Maddison Square Garden concert, whether dinner with David Bowie or Clint Eastwood would be more interesting than chatting with Louis Theroux and how working 'just two days a week' on a certain project mostly really means you will be working 7 days a week on that project and everything else that is going on. There is a lot in this episode that entertains and even more that informs. Listen in, you will not regret it. The episode was recorded on 2 October 2024. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond…